Senior Ladies Free Skate at 7:00 pm EST. | Page 20 | Golden Skate

Senior Ladies Free Skate at 7:00 pm EST.

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Holy Cow just logged on after watching it on NBC here on the West Coast and am shocked to see 26 Pages, yegods! :eek:

Will read this loooooooooooong thread after I post my immediate thoughts on what I just saw for the last 2 hrs: :)

Rachael Flatt ~ this is what I meant when I said one has to see her skate live, as I did in 2010 at Skate America, she lights up the crowd like a firefly, like nobody else! FlattFan, I envy you, I truly do. Only you in the crowd know what it's truly like to see her skate live (not surprised with the SO, she got one too at 2010 SA). Btw, I was overcome with awe upon seeing that spectacular outfit she wore, like a nestful of colorful feathers. Oh, Rach, if you really want it, and I mean *want it*, as in capturing a medal at Worlds (& maybe even the Olympics) you just need to overhaul your body and get buff like Joannie Rochette because you have everything you need to not only be #1 in the USA, but also the World. But if you're satisfied with what you have now, and that seems to be the case, as evidenced by what the commentators said (i.e. "I've realized all my dreams, and now I'm just here to have fun", then I wish you well. It truly was a joy to watch you skate.

Christina Gao ~ nice solid skate, you should be proud of yourself, but I think you can do even better with a better vehicle to display your talents. Jmho.

Mirai Nagasu ~ what can I say that hasn't already been said? Neither one of your programs this year showed off your many talents, one of which is your gamine smile and joie de vivre, hopefully you too get the perfect vehicle(s) to show off your many talents as well next year. To be honest the whole time you were skating I kept seeing one of my all-time favorites, Oksana Baiul, as you remind me of her during her professional career. :(

Caroline Zhang ~ the magic continued tonight, little one, you did it! Though I prefer your SP more, which I felt really showcased all your new fabulous improvements, like that phenomenal 3R/3R combo. Still, your joy made me get misty-eyed, great job!

Ashley Wagner ~ lol, I was sitting down watching everybody else until you came on, that's when I jumped up & cheered & got into your program. Wow, you just sold it! As I said when I saw it for the very first time this Fall, your program of "Swan Lake" is my 2nd favorite of all-time, Oksana Baiul 1st. :)^) And I literally got shivers & teared up when you presented that fabulous spiral sequence with such verve, command, and total control, My God I honestly thought I was seeing Natalie Portman in the Black Swan!!!!!! Both you & Rachael Flatt had the best programs imho, and you both brought the audience to their feet, not surprisingly. Final word, I've always said I thought you should have won in 2008, and now you have. :bow:

Alissa Czisny ~ she really is another skater from yesteryear, as the commentators said "in the past Alissa would have let those mistakes do her in", but not anymore, not anymore! You maintained your newfound calm, cool, collected composure, and looked like a Regal Queen out there. Posture, positions, superb, nothing need more be said. My only shock, I honestly thought the judges would have put you ahead of Ashley...

Agnes Zawadski ~ I was so pumped from how well your group did (as well as Rachael) that I was hoping & praying that you too would bring it. And after the opening 3/2 combo. I thought it just may be your night, even after the mistake on the 3L I was hoping you would finish strong and skate clean the rest of the performance, but that was too much to ask for one so young & inexperienced. As Scott Hamilton said "you're too great not to be here every year; winning the SP says it all". ITA. And, hey, you won pewter last year, and now bronze this year, that kind of trajectory says you're going to win silver next year and gold in 2014. ;)


NICE NIGHT OF SKATING, THANKS LADIES! :)
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Tired...so here were my impressions as said on FSU:

"First off, congrats to Wagner and good for her for backing up the talk.

Second, congrats to Zhang for a comeback few thought was possible.

Flatt went out there and did herself proud- even though she finished only 6th after being in the top 2 four years in a row, after what she's been through...and realizing it could have been much worse the way she's been skating.

Zawadzki- well, this is a good learning experience for her but she has what it takes and I hope she does not get discouraged by what happened tonight. If anything, it's a triumph for her...she made herself known by that SP on Thursday night, and it's a real tough position to a) be the leader after the SP and b) to skate last. At least I hope she gets a Four Continents trip out of it.

Gao- good to finally see her get stronger and lose some of that shyness I saw earlier.

Czisny- despite the shaky FS, she hung on and didn't let the mistakes derail the performance and that's critical. The ability to fight for every point is the cornerstone of this system. That said, she's going to need to find those jumps pretty soon if she wants to contend for a world medal. This is probably her best shot at one! She needs to shake off tonight, rest up a bit and train for worlds. I don't think she needs to go to 4CC but I'm hearing she'll go anyway.

Nagasu- oh man. What to say, what to do? She looked completely distracted and that's unfortunate. I really think it's a combination of mental issues and being undertrained- her training situation just isn't working out for her and I think ultimately she'll need to leave Carroll and find a more consistent training regimen. The status quo just isn't working...and it would be ultimate shame if this is how her career ends..."
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Rachael Flatt ~ this is what I meant when I said one has to see her skate live, as I did in 2010 at Skate America, she lights up the crowd like a firefly, like nobody else! FlattFan, I envy you, I truly do. Only you in the crowd know what it's truly like to see her skate live (not surprised with the SO, she got one too at 2010 SA). Btw, I was overcome with awe upon seeing that spectacular outfit she wore, like a nestful of colorful feathers. Oh, Rach, if you really want it, and I mean *want it*, as in capturing a medal at Worlds (& maybe even the Olympics) you just need to overhaul your body and get buff like Joannie Rochette because you have everything you need to not only be #1 in the USA, but also the World. But if you're satisfied with what you have now, and that seems to be the case, as evidenced by what the commentators said (i.e. "I've realized all my dreams, and now I'm just here to have fun", then I wish you well. It truly was a joy to watch you skate.

I'm just so happy to be there. She did wonderfully. During warm up, she doubled the flip, but landed the lutz. Then doubled another jump. I thought it was going to be bad.
In the actual program, she only made one mistake on the double flip. Standing O. Biggest reaction from the crowd for sure. They stood up longer for her than for the eventual winner. I'm not sure if the crowd knew about her recent struggle but they seemed to be so supportive after she was done. It was a very sweet moment. She can walk away from the sport with her head held high. From not able to land flip and lutz to putting both in the short and long programs, kudo to her work ethic and her determination. What a girl!
 

FlattFan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Some notes from watching all of them lives.

Rachael was slower today than yesterday. Her back is very stiff, which makes her spins particularly average. She does keep her speed throughout, and you can see she's attacking all of her elements. Very determined. College is demanding. She's doing both and doing an admirable job. Great girl.

Vanessa. During warm up, she did a triple lutz right in front of me. It looked like a real lutz. No flutzing. During the program, she flutzed a bit. Good sign. Need better programs. Her footwork is still the bet of the bunch. Ice coverage was not so good compare to the other girls.

Christina Gao. She fell twice on the lutz during warm up. Had some problem with the flip as well. I seriously thought she was going to bomb. Her axel is not good. Need a lot of work on that jump. She seemed slower today than she was in the SP.

Mirai. She was much faster up until the triple flutz-3combo. Then she was crawling after that. Her face showed how scared she was. Must be the slowest girl after the 3-jumps combo. She needs to learn to put everything behind her and continue to compete in the future. It was really bad. Really really bad. She was even slower than junior girls. And she flutzed very badly. She did one right in front of me as well. I thought she kinda fixed that jump and starting to get lip calls instead. What happened to that?

Alissa. I find her dress distasteful. Her long program isn't a program. It was cross-overs and elements. Spins aren't choreography. 2Steps aren't choreography. We need to stop giving her 7s and 8s for transitions and choreography. She just can't handle them. Overscored for that kind of program. Will not get close to that score in the international scene. Maybe 95-100 max.

Ashley. First of all, she's the deserved winner. I find her score outrageous. Her PCS put her at Kostner level. Her TES was just too high. I thought at least 3-4 jumps were two-footed. The same program at international competition will probably net her about 105.

Caroline Zhang. WOW!!! I'm impressed. Her only mistake in both programs was the step out on the flip. Should have been second here. They lowballed her again.

Agnes. Did a beautiful lutz right in front of me during warm up. Looked strong. Then fell apart. Maybe nerve got to her. I think she's not ready after this LP. She would just bomb at the Worlds.

Speed:
Ashley>Christina>Alissa>Vanessa=Agnes=Rachael>Caroline>Mirai

(Mirai can be fast. She was fast the first 40 second of her programs.)
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Whoa, just got through reading this entire thread and am pooped. :biggrin:

And now I see your lovely comments, FlattFan, and am happy for you! :) Btw, what stood out to me more than anything else after reading this thread was the hypocrisy, now come the "nice" comments about Rachael. Yeah, as long as she's not at nor near the top challenging one's favorites it's okay to be saccharine sweet, ugh. F-that. Where the he(double ll) were these people when you & me were holding hands last year on here when Rachael was skating at the GPF. Yeah, right. Anyhow, just needed to get that off my chest. And I'm with you, she can hold her head high anytime she chooses to walk away from this sport. What a gal, what a mind, what a focus, and what a joy it is to watch her skate! :love:

Last note, I've been thinking about the Worlds Team, hmmm. Yeah, I agree with you FlattFan, Agnes is not ready, but I'm not so sure about Gracie Gold? Big question mark there. Now she's a US Jr. National Champion, just like Agnes was in 2010, then she went on to become a Jr. World Silver Medalist in 2010 and a Jr. World Bronze Medalist in 2011, not to mention a US Sr. Pewter Medalist in 2011 (her senior debut btw) and now a US Sr. Bronze Medalist in 2012. After looking at Agnes record, I think it may be good to send Gracie Gold to 4CC (Jr. Worlds is a given), and see how she fares. If she does well there, meaning places above both Ashley & Alissa, only then would I put her on the team for Sr. Worlds. Jmho.

NOW ONTO THE MEN, YEAHHHHHHHHHH, THIS IS THE ONE I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR!!!!!!!!!!!! :rock:
 

bekalc

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 1, 2006
I agree with one of the posters about how Sandra was being a bit harsh about Mirai. Whenever Alissa would bomb her jumps a couple of years back the commentators always found something positive to say about her like her spins are beautiful, she's a beautiful skater if only she could put it together. It sounded like Sandra was angry and frustrated at Mirai.

Alissa was never a very good jumper (still isn't) but always tried her best. I think people were less harsh on Alissa because their expectations were frankly less. We know that Alissa is not somehow going to become a great jumper at this state in her career. In contrast Mirai is clearly extremely talented and clearly can do it all. But seems to lack motivation/will. And I think that's why people are harder on Mirai.

And I'm sorry but I find the whole Mirai needs Evan to motivate her to be more than a bit much. Sure having a training partner can be great; but great athletes find multiple ways to keep themselves motivated. One would think that being fourth at the Olympics would have been more than enough motivation for Mirai.
 

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
People may not like Rachel or her skating, but you have to give her credit for pulling herself together enough to do well tonight. Good for her. give all the criticism she's faced, she could have easily bagged it and moved on. If she does leave skating, at least it will be on her terms.

Agreed. I'm no fan but she was joyful out there tonight, truly performed. Best costume she's ever worn, beautiful stained glass tones.

I think "Firebird" is the best LP she's ever done. It truly suits her style.

Rachael Flatt is wearing one of the most beautiful costumes I've ever seen. Simple but beautifully colored, like stained glass.

That's the best, most flattering dress I've ever seen on Rachael. I LOVED it and I was happy for her that she did such a great job in the LP to pull up.

Christina Gao seems all limbs. Once she grows into her body she should improve loads.

Ashley deserved the win, her programs have really been my favorite this year. Alissa was shaky but she does get lots of love from international judges so I'm glad she made top 2.

Agnes has HUGE jumps. Once she gets consistent she should be right up there. Caroline REBORN! What a great job to silence the doubters!

Caroline's resurgence gives me hope for Mirai who is clearly in some kind of a slump. I was devastated for her but I'm not giving up on her. Reports all weak were that she was blazing through practices so I don't think it's a physical issue with her. I think it's mental and emotional. She's got to find her mojo again. And she's got to get the numbers in which I don't think she can possibly be doing with a 4 hour commute to and from Frank's rink each day, and going from one rink to the other, sometimes apparently training alone. Not good! I think she needs a sports psycholigist to help her work out her demons. I believe Mirai will get it together and come back even stronger. She's only 18. There's still time.

Yes, but I don't think its a matter of not putting in the effort with Mirai -- it may be more about losing her focus and making silly mistakes in competition. I've said all season too that I don't like this program and especially not this music for Mirai -- that may be a huge part of the problem too, or at least a little of the problem this season -- not being inspired by the music.

^^^
THIS! I can't stand Mirai's programs this year, especially her LP. I think it's worse than her Geisha number. When she was into it she really brought it to life. And she needs an SP that will echo or better the magic of her 'Pirates' SP.
 

camion

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
It'd be sad that Mirai would have to encroach on Ashley's territory (ie. working with Nicks) just to get some motivation out of her. I just don't think she wants it bad enough. Call Ashley cocky or overconfident, but at least she knows what she wants and attacks for it. Ashley made visible changes to her skating and now she's reaping the rewards for the hard work she's put in. I've never heard Mirai say anything but "I want to be the best"... It's easy enough to say that but her actions have never reflected that statement. We get the same stories we've been getting since she was 15 about how she's lazy and lacks the motivation to practice and that she's emotional or she let's the negative voices get in...I'm sick of the excuses at this point.

I feel the same way. Ashley had her eyes on the prize and she nailed it. Mirai needs to take the initiative and really set out what she wants to accomplish in the seasons leading up to Sochi if she wants to get a second trip to the Olympics.

Nagasu- oh man. What to say, what to do? She looked completely distracted and that's unfortunate. I really think it's a combination of mental issues and being undertrained- her training situation just isn't working out for her and I think ultimately she'll need to leave Carroll and find a more consistent training regimen. The status quo just isn't working...and it would be ultimate shame if this is how her career ends..."

I think that's one of the major underlying issues with Mirai- being undertrained. I think even in the time she worked with Charlene, her training hours were relatively fewer compared to the other skaters. Unfortunately, that's not gonna cut when you don't have that 14 year-old body anymore. At this point, she really needs to reassess her training situation because crisscrossing from rink to rink is not smart at all. Either she moves closer to Carroll so she can get more consistent training time with him or she go to another coach closer to where she lives. It's just not efficient and productive enough to continue to train the way she does.

Anyways, congrats to Ashley! How awesome and wonderful to see her vision come to fruition. She's such a hard worker and it's such a well deserved title. It's also great to see John's knack for details polishing up some of Ashley's rough edges :)

And I'm super happy for Caroline. I hope the U.S. sends her to 4CC. I admire her so much for working her butt off reworking her technique and enduring some tough seasons.
 
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Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
*Respectfully clipped for space*
Ashley Wagner. Well yes, all things considered, she did earn that title, but am I the only one who finds some of the choreography a bit strange? I think it may be those periodic staccato arm movements. Softer, dear, softer. And I wish she would hold the endings of her jumps just a tad longer. It would give the program a far more "finished" look. QUOTE]

The staccato arm movements are from the ballet. In the film "Black Swan" you see Natalie Portman's character doing those same staccato 'flapping' arm movements.
 

Lucky Star

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
I haven't seen all the programs from all the ladies, but from what I saw:
First of all, really happy for Ashley Wagner! Well deserved! I was rooting for her to make the team, every year she is somewhere near but never in, she is one of the most succesful US skaters at the Grand Prix, but Nationals just never went well for her. And now she is a National champion, hopefully it will give her confidence and motivation. I really like her LP, nice choreography.
Alissa... Well, she is a beautiful skater and all, but I guess I'll never really like her because I can't stand these jumps. They are painful to watch even when she lands them. Loooong entrances, no transitions, very low and barely rotated. She also seems slow to me, but I've never seen her live, so I'm not sure. Another reason why I don't like Alissa is her programs. I hope she will at least try something different, all of her programs are the same for me.
Agnes Zawadzki is a powerful jumper but she still needs a lot of work on her PCS. I don't really like her programs and costumes. Still, nice jumps when she lands them.
Caroline Zhang was a nice surprise! She lost some weight and looks much better now, and obviously she's been working a lot on her jumps. Way to go! Her spins aren't the same they were when she was a tiny teen, but at least she still has her wonderful layback. I think if she'll continue to improve it's possible for her to make the team next seasons.
Mirai... Oh, what can I say? She has really nice SP and I hope she will keep it next season, but that's one of the programs that look brilliant only when performed good. And she needs to forget that LP and change it as soon as possible. Maybe she should work with different choreographer, I'm not impressed by Lori's works for her so far. But obviously, the programs aren't her main problem. She looks a bit out of shape. Maybe she needs to train harder, it's hard to say, but she is probably the most talented of all the ladies, such a shame to see her skating like this.
 

jamie

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
There are many problems with the US ladies, particularly when you look outside of nationals and place them in an international context.

The only lady capable of a world medal and even GOLD is Nagasu. If she produced the short from 2010 Worlds, and the Free from 2010 Olympics that would definitely medal....possibly win. But she is a giant headcase and her technique is such that it would require an absolute miracle to do the above.

The most consistent skater, Ashley Wagner, will never win a world medal. She has edge issues, rotation issues and lacks star quality. 5th or 6th is her limit, which is excellent, but not what you;d expect from a US champion.

Alissa is capable of a bronze, a silver if others have a meltdown. Her technique is jarring, jumps tentative, small often UR but she has everything else. However, I feel like the her 'beautiful skating' is no longer enough and her PCS will never be as high as they could be because of her tentative and inconsistent skating.

The fact that Zawadski can win the short is sad IMO. The state of US ladies is sad too. I remember when all three medalists had legitimate shots at a world title. Now they only have a chance of top 10 top 6 at best.

Hopefully it can be turned around, soon.
 

snowflake

I enjoy what I like
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Hard Work = Success! I am very, very happy for Ashley :rock: :hb: Looking forward to seeing her fight at Worlds.

Now waiting for Jeremy to repeat Ashley's achievment :thumbsup:
 

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
Ladies Worlds and 4CC's Teams Named

Reposting this from FSU:

Not sure where this goes but U.S. Figure Skating has named the Ladies and Ice Dance Worlds and 4CCs teams:
http://www.usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=47717&type=media

For the ladies:

2012 World Championships

Alissa Czisny
Ashley Wagner

Alternate 1 - Agnes Zawadzki
Alternate 2 - Caroline Zhang
Alternate 3 - Mirai Nagasu :cool:

I'm in all kinds of shock that Mirai was named at all even 3rd alternate :eek:

2012 Four Continents Championships

Ashley Wagner
Agnes Zawadzki
Caroline Zhang :D

Alternate 1 - Rachael Flatt
Alternate 2 - Mirai Nagasu :cool:
Alternate 3 - Christina Gao

2012 World Junior Championships
Christina Gao
Gracie Gold :biggrin:

Vanessa Lam

Alternate 1 - Ashley Cain
Alternate 2 - Hannah Miller
Alternate 3 - Angela Wang
 
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Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
It is amazing to think there are atleast 6 women with a good shot at making the U.S Olympic team for 2014- Wagner, Czisny, Agnes, Gold, Nagasu, and now Zhang. Maybe a 7th with Gao and maybe some more to come. Other than the certainty Flatt wont make it (if she is even still competing by 2014) it is hard to predict what will happen.

Let's hope some youngsters who haven't been mediocre of the World stage the last 4-5 years rise up in the next two years because if we have to depend on Alissa or Ashley or Mirai or Caroline come 2014 we will get killed at the Olympics. They had there time we don't need holdovers from the last Olympic cycle who haven't gotten it done. Agnes does have potential and hopefully gained some much needed experience on what she needs to do to win and Gracie has a ton of talent but we'll have to see about that too. But i would much rather they get the chance then the vets. Besides usually halfway to the next Olympics usually new stars have come on the scene to challenge the veteran skaters from the last Olympic cycle but the same skaters that we've seen for years are the top contenders. That's not a good sign for US skating.
 
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jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
I think the last thing Mirai needs is to work with another chilly, "legendary" coach like John Nicks. I think she should work with Karen Kwan and Peter Oppegard! And she should definitely ditch Lori Nichol. Her programs this year were terrible. Mirai is capable of so much more in terms of artistry--why, for instance, did Lori de-emphasize her spiral in the long program. Mirai has a spiral that is among the best of the current ladies. It should be placed for maximum impact. (And she should also ditch the ugly boot covers).
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
Some notes from watching all of them lives.



Ashley. First of all, she's the deserved winner. I find her score outrageous. Her PCS put her at Kostner level. Her TES was just too high. I thought at least 3-4 jumps were two-footed. The same program at international competition will probably net her about 105.

This! I agree she deserved to win in this weak field, but I am sure she two-footed at least two of her jumps. I haven't had a chance to go back and look. I love her choreo, however, and if she can skate clean--a big if, I know, she should score pretty well. (She also needs to ditch the boot covers).
 

Jammers

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Country
United-States
I think the last thing Mirai needs is to work with another chilly, "legendary" coach like John Nicks. I think she should work with Karen Kwan and Peter Oppegard! And she should definitely ditch Lori Nichol. Her programs this year were terrible. Mirai is capable of so much more in terms of artistry--why, for instance, did Lori de-emphasize her spiral in the long program. Mirai has a spiral that is among the best of the current ladies. It should be placed for maximum impact. (And she should also ditch the ugly boot covers).

Mirai needs to find out if she really wants to skate or she should just quit. I don't see any joy or fire in her at all. She just looks miserable and no coach can fix that. It's all up to her now. Frank isn't a miracle worker if someone doesn't want to work hard and do what it takes to get better then maybe he needs to drop that skater. I'm tired of Mirai not taking her skating career seriously. I mean really finishing behind Flatt?
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Mirai needs to find out if she really wants to skate or she should just quit. I don't see any joy or fire in her at all. She just looks miserable and no coach can fix that. It's all up to her now. Frank isn't a miracle worker if someone doesn't want to work hard and do what it takes to get better then maybe he needs to drop that skater. I'm tired of Mirai not taking her skating career seriously. I mean really finishing behind Flatt?

I agree. She still has huge potential but she should either give 110% or quit now and stop wasting her time. Her PCS in the short program show U.S judges are even about ready to give up on her.
 
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