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Thread: Senior Ladies Free Skate at 7:00 pm EST.

  1. #421
    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsteam4501s View Post
    Ashley certainly deserved to win, although I must say I'm not a huge fan of her skating style. Her little talk with Agnes was very sweet of her, though.
    Best moments for me were Rachel's free skate and her emotions afterwards, as well as little Leah Kaiser - just adorable!

    In the meantime, I'm wondering what both Kimmie and Katya Gordeeva (haaaaa, haaaaa, don't even answer about Katya, yuck!!) are doing now?
    When did Ashley talk with Agnes/what did she say? I'm assuming it was a motivational talk or a consoling talk of some kind, but I'm just curious haha.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Miki Ando hardly has much artistic talent, beauty, or specialness and she is a 2 time World Champion. It isnt impossible to become a Champion even if you arent as talented as Kim and Asada.

    I dont exactly call Suzuki a beautiful skater either, an interesting one yes. Up to date she hasnt achieved anything that great, barely more than Wagner really, so not sure why she is thrown to such a high stratosphere though.

    Not to detract from your overall point but how can you "in many ways they were" with regards to Sasha. She failed to win a single major title, and only won one Kwan-less Nationals.
    Mathman, you make a good point bringing up Ando. She is the best example in recent years of a skater who became World champion despite not having any great artistic ability or beauty on the ice. In some ways I'm still surprised that Miki is a World champion (and a two-time champion at that). But, as others have pointed out, she does at least have great jumps. And she's always had good programs, even if her interpretation of them doesn't compare to an Asada, Kim, or Kostner.

    As to Cohen, I agree, she did not win a major title. However, in her 2003-2006 "quad," she won the Olympic silver, 2 World silvers, 1 World bronze, 1 Grand Prix final gold, 1 GP Final silver. That has to be considered a highly successful record. She was clearly one of the dominant skaters of the quad, along with Slutskaya and Arakawa.

  3. #423
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    I do think Agnes and Gracie Gold are the U.S's best hopes to get back into the elite on the World level though, not Ashley. As for right now Czisny has a better shot at a World medal than Ashley if Czisny goes clean. In fact I think if Czisny goes clean at Worlds this year she will likely be given a medal (considering I highly doubt all the other main contenders will go clean). I have almost given up on Nagasu.

    Still if Flatt could make it up to 5th in the World I could see Wagner sneaking a bronze in at some point if everything comes together and the right situation arises. I think now that she is maximizing her potential she is a better skater than Flatt was.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 01-29-2012 at 12:59 PM.

  4. #424
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    Rewatched Nagasu's LP while I'm importing the DVR footage onto my computer (to make videos). Seriously- even if that program had been clean, it was completely lifeless and devoid of any emotion whatsoever. The program is just a poor fit for her, not sure what team Nagasu was thinking. It forces her to hold back too much.

    Performance started out fine, too (jump-wise). But it was the fall on the end of the 3-2-2 combo about 1/3 of the way in where everything came undone. She absolutely gave up after that mistake and if she wants any success at all, she needs to take a page out of the Cohen book and keep going no matter what. You just give so many points away...

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    When did Ashley talk with Agnes/what did she say? I'm assuming it was a motivational talk or a consoling talk of some kind, but I'm just curious haha.
    After the result was known and before the medal ceremony, NBC showed some backstage stuff; they showed Alissa give Ashley a hug (the coaches all shook hands too) and a little later we saw Ashley hugging and consoling a crying Agnes, we couldn't hear what Ashley was saying though but it looked really sweet and sincere. I think the two of them hang out sometimes, if I recall some twitter messages.

    It was all great to see!

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyria View Post
    Mathman, you make a good point bringing up Ando. She is the best example in recent years of a skater who became World champion despite not having any great artistic ability or beauty on the ice. In some ways I'm still surprised that Miki is a World champion (and a two-time champion at that). But, as others have pointed out, she does at least have great jumps. And she's always had good programs, even if her interpretation of them doesn't compare to an Asada, Kim, or Kostner.

    As to Cohen, I agree, she did not win a major title. However, in her 2003-2006 "quad," she won the Olympic silver, 2 World silvers, 1 World bronze, 1 Grand Prix final gold, 1 GP Final silver. That has to be considered a highly successful record. She was clearly one of the dominant skaters of the quad, along with Slutskaya and Arakawa.
    Mathman=pangtongfan??

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyria View Post
    Mathman, you make a good point bringing up Ando. She is the best example in recent years of a skater who became World champion despite not having any great artistic ability or beauty on the ice. In some ways I'm still surprised that Miki is a World champion (and a two-time champion at that). But, as others have pointed out, she does at least have great jumps. And she's always had good programs, even if her interpretation of them doesn't compare to an Asada, Kim, or Kostner.
    .
    What I found more depressing was that Ando didn't even have to put on a great jumping performance to win worlds last year. Ando could do most of those triples in her sleep, and the one challenging combination she had, she had trouble with. But a clean short with a glorious 3 lutz, and 5 clean gorgeous triples with 2 beautiful 3lutzs is more than what most of that rag tag field could do. The sad thing is I have a feeling put Ando at Worlds this year and Kostner would more than likely make enough slight mistakes to give Ando the title again.
    Last edited by bekalc; 01-29-2012 at 01:49 PM.

  8. #428
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    Ando did a beautiful, artistic short program to win Worlds 2011. Doubt she would have won without it.

  9. #429
    Sometimes bad skating happens to good people... LiamForeman's Avatar
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    For a split second I actually felt SOMETHING in Wagner's presentation. She needs to tap into that and she will be amazing. Congrats to her on her win, since she has worked so hard for so long. It's coming together. But it looks like she's back to 2footing her landings. This fall she was overcompensating by practically wrapping her free leg on the landing, but now it's back to same old same old 2foots.

    As for Alissa Czisny. I guess I don't understand her PCS marks. She skates slowly and tentatively with only rudimentary crossovers. I detected none or very little in terms of transitions, choreography. Her spins are amazing choreography IMO but I don't think that's what PCS is about. Spins are covered in TEC.

    I imagine we'll still only get two spots for Worlds. Czisny has been way off all year, and Wagner just doesn't have the star power to overwhelm int'l judges. Best of luck to them, and hopefully things will work out.

  10. #430
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    ^ good post. LiamForeman, I hope you've been warmly welcomed to GS! ETA: Wow, four posts in 6 years - you are a very disciplined poster!

  11. #431
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    Without watching the US competitions, I'd nonetheless chime in nominating Christina Gao as a highly probable next American Ladies star. From interviews I read, she seems to have a winner's mindset, as well as strong family support and excellent coaching situation. Her awkward growing period is a blessing in disguise. The girl will become a stunning beauty, getting her long limbs to work in her favour as an elegant skater one day. Meanwhile she can keep raising her technical skills without succumbing to the paths and fates of Mirai and Caroline. Outside the fandom for their greatest stars with long distinguished careers, Americans fans can be frickle, quick to swing from super hyping to dumping a skater, pinning high hopes and impatient expectations on young promising talents, and get frustrated and write them off completely as soon as they encounter some set backs, feeling personally betrayed.

    Mirai and Caroline were very high profile as impossibly cute and adorable girls with all their exuberance and quirkiness which unfortunately don't transition well into young womanhood, physically or character wise. They need to reinvent themselves, like Caroline has been doing the last two years under duress, and what Mirai has to do now at this juncture of her skating career. Christina's latent adult beauty and the recent growth spurt keep her learning pace even and steady without sudden and over enthusiastic hype and consequent mental and career roller coaster. But when everything comes together, bam, watch out!

  12. #432
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    ^ So we're frickle, eh?

    Christina has had her own roller-coaster this past season. She was crushed by her GP performances, it was painful to see. It was great to see her doing better here. You could be right about her, but we have a lot of talented young 'uns, it's hard to know who will come out on top. Nina Jiang is another strong possibility and I hope Agnes just got the motivation she needed to rise to the next level.

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiamForeman View Post
    I imagine we'll still only get two spots for Worlds. Czisny has been way off all year, and Wagner just doesn't have the star power to overwhelm int'l judges. Best of luck to them, and hopefully things will work out.
    I'm actually feeling hopeful that Ashley & Alissa can get the third spot back. It's not impossible. They need to come in 6th and 7th (or better) to manage this. When you consider the competition, it seems possible. There's Kostner, Asada, Suzuki. I see them going 1-2-3. Then, who else is in the mix: Leonova, Makarova, Murakami, Gedevanishvili, Korpi, Korobeynikova? Am I forgetting anyone?

    I think Ashley & Alissa match up fairly well against that second group. Remember, Alissa did get 5th last year; she's built up some cred with the international judges. Let's assume at least one of the Russian ladies will skate well and place in the top 7. And, maybe Murakami skates well too. Then Alissa & Ashley would only have to beat the rest of the not-very-impressive second-tier group to secure the 3 spots.

    They can do it if they both perform solidly. They don't have to be brilliant, just clean. I hope they can do it. I like that Ashley mentioned the third spot last night and identified it as a goal to get it back; just the fact that it's on her mind is good. Fingers crossed.

  14. #434
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    Think we could borrow a couple of the young'uns? Nagasu's score would have her first at our Nationals.

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyria View Post
    I'm actually feeling hopeful that Ashley & Alissa can get the third spot back. It's not impossible. They need to come in 6th and 7th (or better) to manage this. When you consider the competition, it seems possible. There's Kostner, Asada, Suzuki. I see them going 1-2-3. Then, who else is in the mix: Leonova, Makarova, Murakami, Gedevanishvili, Korpi, Korobeynikova? Am I forgetting anyone?

    I think Ashley & Alissa match up fairly well against that second group. Remember, Alissa did get 5th last year; she's built up some cred with the international judges. Let's assume at least one of the Russian ladies will skate well and place in the top 7. And, maybe Murakami skates well too. Then Alissa & Ashley would only have to beat the rest of the not-very-impressive second-tier group to secure the 3 spots.

    They can do it if they both perform solidly. They don't have to be brilliant, just clean. I hope they can do it. I like that Ashley mentioned the third spot last night and identified it as a goal to get it back; just the fact that it's on her mind is good. Fingers crossed.
    And if Czisny somehow gets her confidence back she can compete with Kostner and Suzuki as we have seen. Even Mao if she skates like she did on the Grand Prix.

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