Zayak under CoP

**Ptichka** · 12-21-2003, 05:48 PM

OK, I have a question about Zayak under CoP. According to the ISU rules, Zayak applies to triple jumps only: Only two jumps with 3 or more revolutions can be repeated in the Free Program and they must be in either a jump combination or in a jump sequence.. This is what we have seen at Men's FS at Lalique, where Van Der Perrin got credit for 3 double axels, or Plushenko did a total of 4 different toe loops. However, at Ladies FS at Cup of China, Onda did NOT get credit for her 3d toe loop, even though before she did one double toe (as part of combo), and 1 triple (standalone). If only triple jumps counted toward Zayak, then why would her toe NOT be counted??? It was her 7th jump, so it wasn't the number of jumps that hurt her there. Anyone has any ideas?

**thvudragon** · 12-21-2003, 07:12 PM

Yes, skaters have still been given credit for jumps that break the Zayak rule (joubert getting credit for his 2nd 3sal at CoC). The reason Onda didn't get credit for her 2nd 3toe was because it was her 7th jumping pass, and the CoP says that a skater must include an axel like jump in their program. Since Onda had yet to do an axel type jump, her 7th jumping pass was given zero credit. She later did the 2axel, but that was her 8th jumping pass, exceeding the limitations.

This happened because Onda originally planned her 2 3toes to be in sequence, a true one, ala her 02 Worlds LP. She had a weak landing on the first 2toe, so she did a little bit of stroking in between the two, a nono in the CoP.

TV

**Joesitz** · 12-23-2003, 06:48 AM

TV - I can't possibly believe that those judges and other officials are actually counting the jumping moves unless the computer is. If it is the computer, then the software for these CoP competitions must be really advanced technology.

I would believe that if a skater did do a 7th jumping pass and the marks went in, the computer would just negate these marks. Am I correct?

Now the next jump (for the sake of discussion) - a triple axel double toe. Is that ok because it contains an axel?

Joe

**thvudragon** · 12-23-2003, 08:31 AM

I would think it's in the programming, I would hardly think they would leave such things to human error.

I would think your 3axel/2toe hypothetical combo would count, because it just says 1 axel like jump. I guess, this could also mean that a skater could do a 1foot axel/3salchow, and that would meet requirements as well.

TV

**CassidyL** · 12-23-2003, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by thvudragon
I would think it's in the programming, I would hardly think they would leave such things to human error.

I thought I read somewhere that this was one of the responsibilies of the 3 tech specialists. I would think that since they do have the planned content of the programs beforehand, that this would not be that difficult. Not sure though...........

**Ptichka** · 12-23-2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by Joesitz
If it is the computer, then the software for these CoP competitions must be really advanced technology.

Joe, this is a kind of programming a first year SE student can do (not only do you not need "advanced technology" for this, you could write such program on Assembler)! Just as I always assumed the infamous +COMBO thing was also computer-determined. Programmatically, CoP is really simple. It's just that since a computer cannot choose to ignore a rule the way a judge can, ISU has to be a lot more careful about how they write things up.

TV, thanks a lot for those answers. It does make sense. Definitely seems a prime "tweaking" candidate though. Particulartly, if a computer does not count a jump (Onda's 3T in this case), it makes no sense to still consider then next jump, the 2A, the 8th jump.

**Joesitz** · 12-23-2003, 12:12 PM

Ptichka - It's nice to know that catching such skating errors is in the computer's program because it will apply to all skaters.

I'd like to know how the skaters' program submissions to the officials involved is carried out. I mean, I can imagine what the Caller and his Aides will be looking for from such submissions, but when the skater changes his program for whatever reason, will thos 3 understand that? I believe in the Free Skate that it is basically free to do as long as certain requirements are met.

Joe