Caroline Zhang - Can She Regain Her Spot Among The Top US Ladies?

R.D. said:

We only know for sure that Czisny was asked (it was mentioned in a Detroit Free Press article). We don't know how many others were asked (if any) before they got to Gold.

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Do you think it was good that she refused?

krenseby said:

Do you think it was good that she refused?

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Not even sure why USFS asked in the first place!

But...this thread is about Zhang.

I wonder whether some of these supposed calls from the USFSA were just inquiries about a skater's availability, rather than actual offers for the WTT.

Deductive reasoning has me thinking that the top 4 finishers at nationals were asked to participate in WTT. Ashley (who is on a roll) was first choice for a place on the team and luckily she agreed to attend. As for the 2nd spot, they had a lot of options but Vanessa Lam being selected as the alternate speaks volumes as to who was available and who wasn't. Why would the USFSA skip over three internationally experienced senior level skaters for an alternate who has never competed senior internationally? My guess is they asked:

Caroline (4th): Given her performances at nationals and 4CC, she was probably the first choice. Caroline performs well internationally and why not give her another opportunity to show the judges that she's getting back to form. Obviously, she'd already wrapped her season and was in the process of getting started on next season...it's safe to assume she passed.

Agnes (3rd): She'd have been my 2nd choice after Caroline. Agnes is a gamble but her big jumps and solid skills would give her a good chance to compete among the other ladies. Judging by her not being selected to the team or even as alternate, I'm thinking she declined as well.

Alissa (2nd): We heard from her that she was asked to attend. If Caroline and Agnes turned down the offer, they asked Alissa 3rd...probably the USFSA's attempt to give Alissa a chance to save face after that mortifying experience at worlds. After all, there's always a chance she could have given a good skate and been in the medal hunt. But I didn't think she'd be ready to get back on ice that soon anyway...so she declined.

Pass those three, I doubt if the others were considered:

- Christina (5th): Hasn't earned enough reputation to be a factor internationally...
- Rachael (6th): Busy in school and doesn't have the same rep with the judges anymore...
- Mirai (7th): She's not really practicing, almost coachless, and her last outing didn't inspire much confidence...

Past Mirai, all of the skaters are juniors/unknowns. Without an available/reliable senior level entrant, the USFSA might as well invest in their future a bit. Gracie's the US junior champ and was the top US finisher from junior worlds so send her in that 2nd spot. As for the alternate, they went with the top US junior of the JGP season: Vanessa Lam.

That's my reasoning anyway...

Oh, I just assumed they wanted Gold to start getting some experience/cred at the senior level & saw the WTT as a relatively safe way to do that.

I would say Kwanatic's logic makes sense to me. Agnes and Caroline must have had good reasons to turn down the offer. That's a lot of money.

Here is a nice article from Figure Skating International.

http://www.ifsmagazine.com/articles/32440-zhang-makes-a-striking-comeback

kwanatic said:

Caroline ...it's safe to assume she passed.

Agnes (3rd). . . . . I'm thinking she declined as well.



That's my reasoning anyway...

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I like your logic, and its as good a guess as any. However, I don't know why Caroline or Agnes would decline. Caroline is on a roll, things are finally working for her. She hasn't gotten much international exposure in the last 2 years, and as Polymer Bob says, this event pays a lot of money. I am sure Agnes would like some redemption for her 4CC performance. Somce say Caroline was busy with David Wilson on next years program, but she still had a couple week to get ready, as much time as Gold would have.

b-man said:

I like your logic, and its as good a guess as any. However, I don't know why Caroline or Agnes would decline. Caroline is on a roll, things are finally working for her. She hasn't gotten much international exposure in the last 2 years, and as Polymer Bob says, this event pays a lot of money. I am sure Agnes would like some redemption for her 4CC performance. Somce say Caroline was busy with David Wilson on next years program, but she still had a couple week to get ready, as much time as Gold would have.

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I would think after Worlds, a possible reason for turning down an invite to WTT would be that you don't think your team would place well and therefore not take home as much $. After this year's worlds, its not unreasonable to think the US team would not medal...

Caroline Zhang Makes A Striking Comeback

http://www.ifsmagazine.com/articles/32440-zhang-makes-a-striking-comeback

“Despite what people thought or wrote, I was never unhappy while skating,” she said candidly. “I am and always have been truly happy while skating. It was my disappointment with how I was performing that gave the impression I was unhappy.”

[snip]

“The change in my performances this year was triggered by a number of things,” she explained. “I changed my overall outlook on skating and took a different approach to training, both mentally and physically.”

Prior to the 2012 U.S. Championships, her training plan went into high gear. “We focused more on jump consistency, and training programs in different situations,” Zhang explained. “I also started doing double run-throughs a couple of months before nationals.”

[snip]

With her season complete, Zhang is already chomping at the bit to begin preparations for next year. “I’m not taking a break,” she said. “I was excited to get back to the rink the day after Four Continents. There are so many things to work on, and I’m happy to start.”

While many of her former classmates are making college plans Zhang has deferred continuing her education for a year to see how far she can take her skating career. “I love the idea of going to college, but this would not be the best time. When I do go I want to give it my full attention and get the full experience,” she explained.

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To me Caroline needs a lot of work to really make a mark internationally. She still skates slow and she doesn't seem to have the same elegance that she had a few years ago. To me her skating is rather blah.

Jammers said:

To me Caroline needs a lot of work to really make a mark internationally.

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Let's say ( hypothetically ) that Caroline could make the podium at a major ISU championship, would that qualify as a mark?

the phrase "really make a mark" to me sounds like a trajectory similar to what Wagner did this year. By finishing 4th, 3rd in her GP events, winning 4CCs and placing 4th at Worlds/3rd in the FS, I'd say she "made her mark".

OTOH, Zhang had a weak SA, didn't qualify for worlds, but rebounded nicely to a 3rd place at 4CC.

Thanks for the link RD. Caroline certainly sounds focused and very mature. I am looking forward to seeing what she can do next season and
will be rooting for her to succeed.

b-man said:

I like your logic, and its as good a guess as any. However, I don't know why Caroline or Agnes would decline. Caroline is on a roll, things are finally working for her. She hasn't gotten much international exposure in the last 2 years, and as Polymer Bob says, this event pays a lot of money. I am sure Agnes would like some redemption for her 4CC performance. Somce say Caroline was busy with David Wilson on next years program, but she still had a couple week to get ready, as much time as Gold would have.

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True, but once you downshift and go into preparation for next season mode, it might not be beneficial or easy to switch gears again and go back into competitive mode. Caroline said at 4CC that she was happy to have had a clean performance of her FS b/c that was the last time she'd be performing it. Maybe going out on a high note at 4CC was her intention all along, and she had no intention of competing at WTT. I'm sure they knew prior to the selection of the team that the event was being held.

Yeah it's a lot of money but it can't always be about that. Caroline ended her season wonderfully. Internationally, she made her mark by placing at an ISU event. After the season she had last year, her work was done; she proved to the US and the world that she was on the upswing. There's no need prove anything further at this point heading into the off-season. Plus, confidence can be fragile during a comeback. What if she went and had a bad performance? That'd be hanging over her head all summer...better to end on a definite high note and use that feeling and momentum to get started on next season.

Agnes might be in the same boat. After her disappointing showings at nationals and 4CC, undoubtedly, she's found her way back to the drawing board and is working on improving for next season. Maybe she didn't want to step back into the season after already leaving it behind?

For all intents and purposes, World Team Trophy is a bit of a high dollar cheesefest. It really doesn't mean anything in terms of who wins. I'm pretty sure they were asked...just turns out they had better things to do.

Whether or not she achieves her skating goals, the fact that she showed such dedication and hard work to come back and achieve her best results in several years will serve her well in life after she is done skating. I think her problem is that she was trained under the assumptions that (a) flutzing wouldn't be penalized and (b) one could compensate for weak skating skills with 7 triple programs. This was true in the early COP years when results would more closely resemble those under the old system, but as time has gone on things like transitions have become more closely scrutinized (see: Joubert, Plushenko 2006 vs 2010), edge penalties enforced, etc. and now we have results that raise the eyebrows of those who still have a 6.0 mindset (like myself).

I think David Wilson is a great choice for her. It she skates the programs to their intended potential, she should milk every possible point out of them through all the nuances Wilson designs. She's obviously not going to do it with speed and huge jumps. I've always thought of Caroline as one of our more mentally tough competitors (in the Rachael Flatt mode). Hopefully her technique and speed will continue to improve.

tampro1 said:

Hopefully her technique and speed will continue to improve.

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She seemed to be more in shape than in the past 2 seasons. If that trend continues, she should do well.

PolymerBob said:

She seemed to be more in shape than in the past 2 seasons. If that trend continues, she should do well.

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Also, I hope Caroline can stay grounded. It's tough for any skater to not let the pressure get to them once they start getting some success.

tampro1 said:

I think David Wilson is a great choice for her. It she skates the programs to their intended potential, she should milk every possible point out of them through all the nuances Wilson designs. She's obviously not going to do it with speed and huge jumps. I've always thought of Caroline as one of our more mentally tough competitors (in the Rachael Flatt mode). Hopefully her technique and speed will continue to improve.

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I think Wilson is a good choice, but I also wish Caroline would go back to Tom Dickson for more choreography! His Spanish Gypsy SP is still my favourite Caroline program.

b-man said:

I like your logic, and its as good a guess as any. However, I don't know why Caroline or Agnes would decline. Caroline is on a roll, things are finally working for her. She hasn't gotten much international exposure in the last 2 years, and as Polymer Bob says, this event pays a lot of money.

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The one good thing is that Agnes and Caroline can afford to turn down $30,000 . It proves that they are both doing fairly well in the money department.