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Thread: Caroline Zhang - Can She Regain Her Spot Among The Top US Ladies?

  1. #136
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    BOOM to all the naysayers! Ashley Wagner creams Mao Asada, and Caroline is into third!

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Man, need a parade to go with that rain?
    Ha, sorry to be a wet blanket and all, but I'm just tired of getting my hopes up and then having them dashed due to some unforeseen circumstance. It's happened TWICE now. Nagasu's unbelievable meltdown in 2010- if she'd just stood up on the 2A, she'd be 3rd and 3+9=12 and then Flatt's injury (a.k.a. "tibiagate") in 2011. She could have managed 8th place if healthy/sent Nagasu as the alternate instead. And although I didn't include it, let's not forget Czisny's craptastic meltdown in 2009 which cost us that 3rd Oly spot in Vancouver (and 3rd spot at Torino worlds, too)

    Yes, Wagner is doing well at the moment but even putting aside the possible issue of her peaking early, it still takes TWO to tango- and Czisny hasn't really shown me this season why I should put complete faith and trust in her.

    I'm just hoping deep down the two of them go out there and prove me the heck wrong...
    __________________________

    Back to Zhang- yes, I believe with this showing she's truly earned 1st alternate status at worlds...
    Last edited by R.D.; 02-12-2012 at 12:50 PM.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post

    Back to Zhang- yes, I believe with this showing she's truly earned 1st alternate status at worlds...

    Yes, should an alternate be needed, Caroline has made a strong case for herself.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    It's so confounding how limited spots are at Worlds in this sport. Needs to be changed, needs to be changed, needs to be changed.

    Zhang should be making her second trip to Worlds this year. She deserved to be 3rd at Nationals and, as in 2009, it's ridiculous how the USA only has 2 spots and how a skater who has performed so well at a BIG international event is not allowed to actually compete at Worlds.
    I agree. The best skaters should be at Worlds, regardless of Nationality. Or at the very least some countries should be allowed to send up to 5.

    Zhang during her contending years has always been received more favorably by international judges than National judges, and that doesnt appear to be any different now.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Ha, sorry to be a wet blanket and all, but I'm just tired of getting my hopes up and then having them dashed due to some unforeseen circumstance. It's happened TWICE now. Nagasu's unbelievable meltdown in 2010- if she'd just stood up on the 2A, she'd be 3rd and 3+9=12 and then Flatt's injury (a.k.a. "tibiagate") in 2011. She could have managed 8th place if healthy/sent Nagasu as the alternate instead. And although I didn't include it, let's not forget Czisny's craptastic meltdown in 2009 which cost us that 3rd Oly spot in Vancouver (and 3rd spot at Torino worlds, too)

    Yes, Wagner is doing well at the moment but even putting aside the possible issue of her peaking early, it still takes TWO to tango- and Czisny hasn't really shown me this season why I should put complete faith and trust in her.

    I'm just hoping deep down the two of them go out there and prove me the heck wrong...
    __________________________

    Back to Zhang- yes, I believe with this showing she's truly earned 1st alternate status at worlds...
    The U.S made a huge mistake sending Flatt to Worlds last year. It was clear she was finished, and being as she and Nagasu didnt skate much differently at Nationals they should have made sure it was Nagasu. I remember people on this forum crowing to me that Flatt had made it after I declared (still correctly it turned out) her finished around New Years time of 2011, and I warned be careful what you wish for as the U.S just ensured themselves not getting back the 3 spots and how right I was.

    2009 was also a big mistakes, holding up a 3 triple Czisny at Nationals over Flatt and Zhang who each did 7 triples at Nationals and were both peaking heading into Worlds at that point. Especialy when Czisny had proven nothing internationally in years at that point.

    The U.S Nationals judges are responsible for the U.S not gaining 3 spots those years. They always sent one bad apple at the time that was never going to pan out for them.

    2010 was just sad. This is the only year it should have happened and didnt. The other years since 2007 it was expected it would not happen with the teams they chose (often unwisely) to send.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 02-12-2012 at 08:23 PM.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    The U.S Nationals judges are responsible for the U.S not gaining 3 spots those years. They always sent one bad apple at the time that was never going to pan out for them.

    .
    I wouldn't be surprised the U.S. Nationals judges made the same mistake again this year! I'm not a Zhang fan but she should be sent to the worlds instead of Alissa or some no-name Zakawi(?). It's a travesty they again sent out a unreliable Alissa who could barely rotate her jumps and kept on popping and falling. I wouldn't be surprised if Alissa would bomb again at the worlds.

  7. #142
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    Thing about Czisny is that even if she's mediocre, she has enough to fall back on to stay in the top 10. Now, in the case of a meltdown that is a different story. At her best she can challenge for a medal- even the title- but that's one thing we've never seen from her.

    I can understand Zhang not being on the immediate world team because she came out of nowhere and I actually still think Czisny (even with a mistake or two) will score higher than her on the world stage. I think after 4CCs though they should move her up to 1st alternate. I think the list has been determined/submitted already though. The way it is now, Zawadzki is our 1st alternate...

    If the current ladies can just get back that 3rd spot, I think Zhang's chances of going to worlds next year look quite good.

  8. #143
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    Well, it has already been announced, right? Wagner and Czisny, with Zawadski as the first alternate.

    Ashley is red hot at the moments, but her streak has only two good competitions in a row. Alissa dropped the ball in her last couple of competitions, but last year won the Grand Prix Final and got fifth at Worlds.

    Lacking a consistent and dominant star, all we can do is hope for the best.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    , Zawadzki is our 1st alternate...

    .
    Zawadzki's score at the Nationals was a joke. You have to wonder whether all of the National judges are either her mom, or daddy or aunt.

  10. #145
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    ^ She won her spot in the short program. Clean with big jumps. She had such a nice cushion that she still got third even after a sub-par long program.

    To me, the result is more a by-product of the scoring system than an indication of favoritism.

    The USFSA does seem to have high hopes for Agnez in the future, though. Both Zawardski and Wagner have to win on the tech side. Caroline Zhang as a junior was utterly exquisite on the artistic side, and her flaws in technique did not seem very important. If she can fully regain that charm as a mature senior she could be the one.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To me, the result is more a by-product of the scoring system than an indication of favoritism.
    Caroline scored all PCS in the 7's except for Transitions in the FS at National's (total: 56.55), which is by far the highest PCS she has ever been awarded. At 4CC, she only earned a 7.07 in P/E, total: 54.19. So I think for once, the U.S. judges were not holding her down. What really hurt her at National's was getting a level 2 and level 3 spin in the SP, and a level 1 and level 3 spin plus a level 2 footwork sequence in the FS -- at 4CC, she earned level 4 for all her spins and level 3 for both footwork sequences. Had she gotten those levels at National's, she would've definitely bypassed Agnes for the bronze; and she might have even passed Alissa in the SP for 3rd place going into the FS, making herself looking more like a serious threat.

    But Zawadski was definitely held up at National's a bit in her PCS:
    SP: 30.59 (National's), 26.80 (4CC)
    FS: 59.60 (National's), 55.09 (4CC)

    Maybe National's judges just got a little too excited and thought that "the next big thing" has just manifested itself in Agnes.
    Last edited by feraina; 02-12-2012 at 10:48 PM.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Thing about Czisny is that even if she's mediocre, she has enough to fall back on to stay in the top 10. Now, in the case of a meltdown that is a different story. At her best she can challenge for a medal- even the title- but that's one thing we've never seen from her.

    I can understand Zhang not being on the immediate world team because she came out of nowhere and I actually still think Czisny (even with a mistake or two) will score higher than her on the world stage. I think after 4CCs though they should move her up to 1st alternate. I think the list has been determined/submitted already though. The way it is now, Zawadzki is our 1st alternate...

    If the current ladies can just get back that 3rd spot, I think Zhang's chances of going to worlds next year look quite good.
    True. I do think they picked the right 2 women team this year, both all things considered and based on the skating at Nationals. If Czisny bombs this time I doubt there will be any recovery for her.

    As we already know ALOT can happen in a years time so who knows what might happen by next years Nationals but if Wagner and Czisny do well and regain 3 spots then Wagner, Czisny, and Gold might be the early frontrunners for the 3 spots next year. If Czisny does poorly and the U.S does not regain 3 spots because of it then Wagner and Gold would seem to be the early favorites for the 2 spots next year. Well maybe Czisny might fare poorly at Worlds and the U.S still regains 3 spots due to a fabulous showing by Wagner, which would seem the best scenario in a way for Zhangs U.S status heading into next season (not that I am hoping anyone does poorly, just my feeling on things). That does not even account the other major contenders like Agnes who showed with her SP at Nationals she could really be something if she gets her head together, and Nagasu who of course can really be something if she gets herself together, and possibly some others. However it pans out Zhang will have a huge fight on her hands to make it onto the World team for the first time, but I definitely wouldnt put it past her after seeing her hard work and improvement over the last year either.
    Last edited by pangtongfan; 02-13-2012 at 12:22 AM.

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    But Zawadski was definitely held up at National's a bit in her PCS:
    SP: 30.59 (National's), 26.80 (4CC)
    FS: 59.60 (National's), 55.09 (4CC)

    Maybe National's judges just got a little too excited and thought that "the next big thing" has just manifested itself in Agnes.
    Her SP at Nationals was phenomenal and scored correctly in both TES and PCS IMO. Her LP was definitely overscored in PCS, which is what helped keep Zhang off the podium, along with Agnes killing it in the SP.

    I do think the U.S jugdes might have thought for a moment they saw the next big thing, but after her last 3 performances it is clear she still has some major work to do. It worries me she was thinking of quitting earlier this year, it makes me wonder if she has the mental toughness to ever be a champion in the sport.

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    What really hurt her at National's was getting a level 2 and level 3 spin in the SP, and a level 1 and level 3 spin plus a level 2 footwork sequence in the FS -- at 4CC, she earned level 4 for all her spins and level 3 for both footwork sequences.
    I wondered about that. How did Caroline make all her spins level 4 in only 2 weeks? :sheesh:

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    I wondered about that. How did Caroline make all her spins level 4 in only 2 weeks? :sheesh:
    Part of it was the callers and the scoring in general at this 4CCs was very generous in all 4 disciplines.

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