Caroline Zhang - Can She Regain Her Spot Among The Top US Ladies? | Page 11 | Golden Skate

Caroline Zhang - Can She Regain Her Spot Among The Top US Ladies?

LongTimeLurker

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
I don't understand what you mean by that. Care to go into more detail?
Sure, I'll elaborate. When Carolyn's attitude was poor, her posture seemed slightly hunched and closed. Now, she seems to stand straighter, her chin is held higher, and her movements seem more open.
Does that make more sense? Sometimes I'm not great at conveying what I mean. :)
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Sure, I'll elaborate. When Carolyn's attitude was poor, her posture seemed slightly hunched and closed. Now, she seems to stand straighter, her chin is held higher, and her movements seem more open.
Does that make more sense? Sometimes I'm not great at conveying what I mean. :)
Maybe it wasn't a bad attitude but self-doubt she was conveying because things were spiraling downward. When I am unsure about what I am doing on the ice, I tend to get more "hunchy" and tight looking and closed.
 

feraina

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Maybe it wasn't a bad attitude but self-doubt she was conveying because things were spiraling downward. When I am unsure about what I am doing on the ice, I tend to get more "hunchy" and tight looking and closed.

I agree. I don't think Caroline ever had "bad attitude". I think she was a perfectionist and was often disappointed with herself. The times where she showed disappointment when the scores came up, she always looked disappointed and mad at herself when she came off the ice as well. I think she was frustrated because she didn't know how to improve her skating, not because she didn't get the scores she thought she deserved. Her coaching team certainly didn't seem adequate for addressing her issues. She said as much in interviews after the Olympic season, she said she was aware of her problems but was too afraid to change things from ground up and jeopardize her chances of going to the Olympics. But one can imagine that if she was aware of her problems and yet postponing addressing them because of the timing of the Olympics, then obviously she's not going to be able to skate with full confidence and joy like someone who's sure that they are training properly and trusting the path that they are on.
 

lcd

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
It is indeed a journey, and she has gone from hyped to forgotten to scraping her way back, so good for her. I will say it is a bit dismaying though that her overal packaging - still slow speed, unremarkable and problematic jump technique, affected and not truly accessible personna and style is enough to make it back onto the podium. Again, good for her, but I would think it should take more. It simply should.
 

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
It is indeed a journey, and she has gone from hyped to forgotten to scraping her way back, so good for her. I will say it is a bit dismaying though that her overal packaging - still slow speed, unremarkable and problematic jump technique, affected and not truly accessible personna and style is enough to make it back onto the podium. Again, good for her, but I would think it should take more. It simply should.

Well, it usually does take more, if people don't make too many mistakes on their jumps. Mirai, Rachel, and Christina could have all potentially beaten Caroline at Nationals and I am sure that Agnes, Kanako, Cynthia also had the potential to beat her at 4CC.

So, with everyone at their best, her overall packaging is not enough to make the podium. And yes to be truly competitive she has a lot more work to do. But I've been told that skaters who are focused on their jump technique often pay less attention to their choreography, expression, musicality, and performance. Can Caroline get a compelling LP with music and choreography that suits her and perform it with pizzazz? I am not quite sure; she is still thinking about her jumps. To have her go for both jumps and performance, that's an enormous challenge for her.
 
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skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Working on a triple axel would be laughable. She doesnt even do more than an average double axel, even with her jump improvements. I agree she should focus on continued drastic improvements in her speed and basic skating first and foremost. As much as she gained in those areas, much more is still needed, if she even hopes to make the Sochi Olympic team.
hmmm...disappearing posts? I think caroline has one gorgeous move, and her skating is not special otherwise. I laud her efforts but again, I think she needs all the basics and her double axel to improve. I do think several women have said this as Sasha used to practice the quad, but sometimes it seems like PR statements and not reality we hear.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
It's probably worked on, but on the side- in other words, it's likely not emphasized.

But what would one gain by saying they're working on something that they're really not, or that is realistically NEVER going to appear in a competition?
 

krenseby

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
It's probably worked on, but on the side- in other words, it's likely not emphasized.

But what would one gain by saying they're working on something that they're really not, or that is realistically NEVER going to appear in a competition?

You know all this arguing about the triple axel reveals a basic tension in ladies figure skating. On the one hand, we want ladies to have all the big tricks - triple triples or perhaps a triple axel. But on the other hand, we recognize that sometimes they can also benefit from devoting their attention not to complicated jumps but to the basics of figure skating. I remember this from the Irina/Michelle era. While Irina was trying to impress with triple-triples, people were complaining about her posture, lack of artistry, etc.. etc.. On the other hand, while people praised Kwan for her beautiful skating, they often expressed the wish that she acquire triple-triples.

By the way, I am sorry that I ended up bringing Kwan into this thread. I realize people are often unhappy with the general tendency of her being dragged into the conversation when we are in fact speaking of other skaters.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
To put herself in Mao Asada's league in the minds of people. People posture a lot in skating. ie "I plan to do 2 quads in my free skate. " And they are never landed. Points for bad jumps and falls under CoP so why not try?
 

cornell08

Final Flight
Joined
May 10, 2009
hmmm...disappearing posts? I think caroline has one gorgeous move, and her skating is not special otherwise.

First, thank RD for that.

Second, how many current skaters have even one gorgeous move? I don't think the current crop of ladies or even the juniors waiting in the wings are *that* special.
 

fairly4

Medalist
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
see patrick chan scores, for falling and still getting high pcs scores, for trying.
i realize he has more artistry=but when started out not, now being overly hyped his pc are too high, but notice his jumps sometimes arent so great.

for me caroline zhang has a good a shot as anyone. mirai, rachel, christina, agnes etc. didn't have great technique still is up there.
so why not let her try in practice, the coaches and her will determine the best course of action regarding the 3a.
she has improved in speed, height of jumps-maybe many posters haven't noticed but she has.
yes, caroline can get up on podium again and get up there, mirai, rachel etc got up with bad technqiue when first jumped up and stayed up with not so great jumps and etc.-=why hyped up pc scores when shouldn't have. but another story.

jumps 3a she should try in practice, let her and coaches decide whether to put in competition --not for you and me to decide and debate otherwise i would debate some othe jumps, technique for the other skaters who shouldn't have put it in the competition and high pcs for not so good (artistry)
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ You posted at the exact same time as skateluvr. I don't know exactly why, but sometimes this causes posts to disappear.

Everybody -- if you lose a long post, you can recover it by clicking again on Reply to thread, then on "autosave" in the lower left-hand corner of the text box.
 

cornell08

Final Flight
Joined
May 10, 2009
In the latest Inside Edge article on Icenetwork, Caroline is mentioned to have also been in Toronto for choreography with David Wilson. I'm excited to know what her programs will be! I think of Dickson, Nichol and Wilson I like Wilson for Caroline best. Rushing Wing's of Dawn flowed amazingly.

Also, is it too early to start the upcoming season's Caroline thread? :biggrin: I figured after Team Trophy if no one does, I shall..
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
She's going to Wilson? Great news.

This is one skater whose progress we can actually see--increased speed, more solid jumps. Add that to her steady nerves (head case was never her problem, as far as I can tell), and I have great hopes for her this season. I vote yes for you to start a Caroline thread as soon as you deem it suitable.
 

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
I think the US should have honoured with an offer to skate at the World Team. It would be good to test her out anyways.
 

cornell08

Final Flight
Joined
May 10, 2009
I think the US should have honoured with an offer to skate at the World Team. It would be good to test her out anyways.

From the sounds of it, USFSA asked Czisny who turned it down, and Agnes and Caroline may have as well (at least for 1st alternate) since the first alternate is Vanessa Lam. Most likely before Worlds, Caroline's team figured most likely Wagner and Czisny would be going so they started working on next season's programs and booked David Wilson for a choreography session. They may be figuring that the sooner prepared Caroline is the more dominating she can be at her summer competitions and get comprehensive Champs Camp feedback in case anything needs to be reworked. From what we've seen in the past, Caroline has shown herself to not really be one to adapt to new programs quickly...with Ave Maria and Dvorak its apparent she really grows into the program after having them for a while. The last time she was really competitive, her season stretched through World Team Trophy and may not have given her enough time to absorb fully and become comfortable with her new programs, and that season saw a Caroline that seemed mostly preoccupied with choreography and less emotionally invested and expressive. We can only assume the more out of her comfort zone her new program is, the more time she'll need to really own it. I know I've been waiting for a program to really break out from her usual repertoire, so I hope this is it :)
 
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PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
There is a long discussion on this subject over at FSUniverse. Apparently, the USFSA asked several girls to be on the team, including Agnes and Caroline. They appear to have even asked Alissa. We don't know in what order they were asked.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
We only know for sure that Czisny was asked (it was mentioned in a Detroit Free Press article). We don't know how many others were asked (if any) before they got to Gold.
 
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