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Thread: Caroline Zhang - Can She Regain Her Spot Among The Top US Ladies?

  1. #196
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    Working on a triple axel would be laughable. She doesnt even do more than an average double axel, even with her jump improvements. I agree she should focus on continued drastic improvements in her speed and basic skating first and foremost. As much as she gained in those areas, much more is still needed, if she even hopes to make the Sochi Olympic team.

  2. #197
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    I'm still not that impressed with Caroline's skating even though she deserves credit for coming back like she did. But she still is slow and not much is memorable about her skating.

  3. #198
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    I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a huge fan of Caroline's. Although flexible, her negative attitude in years past really turned me off. However, I loved her program at 4CC! Yes, she is still slow, but her attitude has improved by leaps and bounds, and her jump technique has come a long way. You can almost see her improved attitude in her posture. Although attitude does not win championships, it sure brought a smile to my face. Whether or not Caroline can make the further improvements needed in order to reach the US podium remains to be seen. My guess is that she will try for Sochi, and if she doesn't make it will retire and go to college.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimeLurker View Post
    I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a huge fan of Caroline's. Although flexible, her negative attitude in years past really turned me off. However, I loved her program at 4CC! Yes, she is still slow, but her attitude has improved by leaps and bounds, and her jump technique has come a long way. You can almost see her improved attitude in her posture. Although attitude does not win championships, it sure brought a smile to my face. Whether or not Caroline can make the further improvements needed in order to reach the US podium remains to be seen. My guess is that she will try for Sochi, and if she doesn't make it will retire and go to college.

    I agree!

    It was Ashley that I rooted for among ladies the most at US Nats, because I love her two programs this season. Hers are smiply the best two programs among US ladies, and she really can aim for a podium finish at Worlds this year. So I got thrilled, yelled(!) and clapped all the way her free skate while watching on TV.

    The actual skater, however, who made me cried out with joy was Caroline!

    Yes, she has a long way to go to the top; stroking, edges, hight on jumps, overall speed, spin positions (except the layback-pearl one, of course), etc...she's still got loads of work ahead of her. But just imagine how much she has been through the last two years. While I am not a fan of her skating yet, I do admire her fighting spirit. Then another good showing at 4CC...I wondered if Mirai got to watch Caroline's performances and audience reactions, and wished she did.

    When was it Shizuka won her first (and only) Worlds title? at 22, IIRC.
    Then what happened 2 years later? We all remember. Right?
    Both Caroline and Mirai are still very young. Don't write them off just yet, please.

  5. #200
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    I think if Mirai gets her head together she's more likely to win a major championship then Caroline. Mirai just has better all around skills. It's just she needs to stop being a headcase and do the work to get better. For God sakes if Alissa can do it anyone can.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimeLurker View Post
    You can almost see her improved attitude in her posture.
    I don't understand what you mean by that. Care to go into more detail?

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by krenseby View Post
    I don't understand what you mean by that. Care to go into more detail?
    Sure, I'll elaborate. When Carolyn's attitude was poor, her posture seemed slightly hunched and closed. Now, she seems to stand straighter, her chin is held higher, and her movements seem more open.
    Does that make more sense? Sometimes I'm not great at conveying what I mean. :-)

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongTimeLurker View Post
    Sure, I'll elaborate. When Carolyn's attitude was poor, her posture seemed slightly hunched and closed. Now, she seems to stand straighter, her chin is held higher, and her movements seem more open.
    Does that make more sense? Sometimes I'm not great at conveying what I mean. :-)
    Maybe it wasn't a bad attitude but self-doubt she was conveying because things were spiraling downward. When I am unsure about what I am doing on the ice, I tend to get more "hunchy" and tight looking and closed.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Maybe it wasn't a bad attitude but self-doubt she was conveying because things were spiraling downward. When I am unsure about what I am doing on the ice, I tend to get more "hunchy" and tight looking and closed.
    I agree. I don't think Caroline ever had "bad attitude". I think she was a perfectionist and was often disappointed with herself. The times where she showed disappointment when the scores came up, she always looked disappointed and mad at herself when she came off the ice as well. I think she was frustrated because she didn't know how to improve her skating, not because she didn't get the scores she thought she deserved. Her coaching team certainly didn't seem adequate for addressing her issues. She said as much in interviews after the Olympic season, she said she was aware of her problems but was too afraid to change things from ground up and jeopardize her chances of going to the Olympics. But one can imagine that if she was aware of her problems and yet postponing addressing them because of the timing of the Olympics, then obviously she's not going to be able to skate with full confidence and joy like someone who's sure that they are training properly and trusting the path that they are on.

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    It is indeed a journey, and she has gone from hyped to forgotten to scraping her way back, so good for her. I will say it is a bit dismaying though that her overal packaging - still slow speed, unremarkable and problematic jump technique, affected and not truly accessible personna and style is enough to make it back onto the podium. Again, good for her, but I would think it should take more. It simply should.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcd View Post
    It is indeed a journey, and she has gone from hyped to forgotten to scraping her way back, so good for her. I will say it is a bit dismaying though that her overal packaging - still slow speed, unremarkable and problematic jump technique, affected and not truly accessible personna and style is enough to make it back onto the podium. Again, good for her, but I would think it should take more. It simply should.
    Well, it usually does take more, if people don't make too many mistakes on their jumps. Mirai, Rachel, and Christina could have all potentially beaten Caroline at Nationals and I am sure that Agnes, Kanako, Cynthia also had the potential to beat her at 4CC.

    So, with everyone at their best, her overall packaging is not enough to make the podium. And yes to be truly competitive she has a lot more work to do. But I've been told that skaters who are focused on their jump technique often pay less attention to their choreography, expression, musicality, and performance. Can Caroline get a compelling LP with music and choreography that suits her and perform it with pizzazz? I am not quite sure; she is still thinking about her jumps. To have her go for both jumps and performance, that's an enormous challenge for her.
    Last edited by krenseby; 03-01-2012 at 11:55 AM.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangtongfan View Post
    Working on a triple axel would be laughable. She doesnt even do more than an average double axel, even with her jump improvements. I agree she should focus on continued drastic improvements in her speed and basic skating first and foremost. As much as she gained in those areas, much more is still needed, if she even hopes to make the Sochi Olympic team.
    hmmm...disappearing posts? I think caroline has one gorgeous move, and her skating is not special otherwise. I laud her efforts but again, I think she needs all the basics and her double axel to improve. I do think several women have said this as Sasha used to practice the quad, but sometimes it seems like PR statements and not reality we hear.

  13. #208
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    It's probably worked on, but on the side- in other words, it's likely not emphasized.

    But what would one gain by saying they're working on something that they're really not, or that is realistically NEVER going to appear in a competition?

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    It's probably worked on, but on the side- in other words, it's likely not emphasized.

    But what would one gain by saying they're working on something that they're really not, or that is realistically NEVER going to appear in a competition?
    You know all this arguing about the triple axel reveals a basic tension in ladies figure skating. On the one hand, we want ladies to have all the big tricks - triple triples or perhaps a triple axel. But on the other hand, we recognize that sometimes they can also benefit from devoting their attention not to complicated jumps but to the basics of figure skating. I remember this from the Irina/Michelle era. While Irina was trying to impress with triple-triples, people were complaining about her posture, lack of artistry, etc.. etc.. On the other hand, while people praised Kwan for her beautiful skating, they often expressed the wish that she acquire triple-triples.

    By the way, I am sorry that I ended up bringing Kwan into this thread. I realize people are often unhappy with the general tendency of her being dragged into the conversation when we are in fact speaking of other skaters.

  15. #210
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    To put herself in Mao Asada's league in the minds of people. People posture a lot in skating. ie "I plan to do 2 quads in my free skate. " And they are never landed. Points for bad jumps and falls under CoP so why not try?

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