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Thread: Caroline Zhang - Can She Regain Her Spot Among The Top US Ladies?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Most young people are naturally going to face body image issues with puberty (and not just girls, it's ridiculous how you insinuate that males don't have big personal issues in this regard as well) and that is something which needs to be thoroughly explained to them and they need proper guidance with.
    I am well aware of body issues for both sexes but boys to not generally have issues with anorexia or bulimia. Quite frankly, I think the last time someone commented on a male skater being "too fat" was when Artur Dimitriev was still competing and would turn up every fall overweight and out of shape and work himself back into shape over the course of the season. Artur hasn't competed since 1994. The greater danger for boys is trying to emulate the buff bodies of underwear models and turning to steriods to achieve that look. There is an epidemic of steriod abuse amongst high school boys in North America.
    Last edited by Dragonlady; 02-09-2012 at 02:15 PM.

  2. #92
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    Miss Mao's triple axel is in attendance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BizEY...ature=youtu.be

  3. #93
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Actually you have to go further back...almost to the beginning of the thread. It took a while to escalate, but this is where it all started (this is by the same poster BTW)

    Post #9:
    Thanks. For me it's a question of truth. PB has a point, but there are counter-arguments as well and I personally don't have the expertise to "weigh in" on which is the root problem for Caroline. Apparently Caroline and her team agreed with him to at least some extent -- she has lost some weight as well as worked on her technique, and the combination is obviously working. It should also be noted that PB is Caroline's biggest fan, or at least the most loyal one I've seen on this forum. His criticism is always meant constructively.

    Great post, Blades. (Apart from the first line; I haven't followed Dragonlady's posting history enough to make such a comment. )

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    Miss Mao's triple axel is in attendance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BizEY...ature=youtu.be
    Yippee!

  5. #95
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    Zhang was dealing with a growth spurt/body change. This is where I have the biggest problem with the weight discussion- it's one thing if athletes in their 20s and 30s are having issues with conditioning/staying in shape, but in something like skating, where peak performance often occurs in early to mid teens, weight gain and filling out is simply part of the growing process, it happens when you hit puberty around this age and it has NOTHING to do with fitness. You can't stay a kid forever. And if someone is brain-washed into thinking they're fat (on top of the struggles that come with adjusting to the new adult body), those thoughts can persist long afterwards and THAT is not healthy...

  6. #96
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    There is an IN article on Zhang- for some reason won't let me post the link here, but here is a quick summary:

    "Caroline was a child star, and it all came rather easily and quickly for her," said Peter Oppegard, who coaches Zhang with his wife, Karen Kwan-Oppegard, at the East West Ice Palace in Artesia, Calif.

    "I feel she is kind of late at maturing, and I think she just kind of learned as she went. The body adjustments she had to make took time. Somewhere down the line, she started to make good choices, and I think she's making more and more good choices now."

    [snip]

    "I feel like I took a different approach to training for nationals and it turned out a lot better," Zhang, 18, said after her practice Wednesday. "I tried to attack my programs. Going out to the short program, I knew there was nothing for me to lose. I could just go out there and do the program I knew I could do."

    [snip]

    In San Jose, Zhang's increased speed and fit appearance led many to believe she had embraced a radically different exercise and diet regime, but that's not the case.

    "I've been given that question many times," she said. "A lot of people have commented on it, but really I haven't put as much importance on it as a lot of other people seem to think I have. It was just something that came naturally with better training, and I really didn't pay attention to my weight so much. It was more, build muscle for better jumps."

    "She's definitely dropped weight, but she's done it in a healthy way, and she's also worked on her fitness," Oppegard said. "Triple loop-triple loop is a very physical combination that not many people can do. So she's gone up to the gym, and it's paying off for her now."

    [snip]

    Whatever happens here, Zhang thinks her efforts over the past 12 months have put her on track for an even bigger comeback.

    "I'm definitely happy with where my training is going right now," she said. "I hope to just take the momentum from this and build into next season. I would like to do better here than I did at nationals. I wasn't expecting an assignment, and to come here is just awesome."
    Bold is emphasized by me, since it is directly relevant to the current discussion on Zhang in this thread

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Thanks. For me it's a question of truth. PB has a point, but there are counter-arguments as well and I personally don't have the expertise to "weigh in" on which is the root problem for Caroline. Apparently Caroline and her team agreed with him to at least some extent -- she has lost some weight as well as worked on her technique, and the combination is obviously working. It should also be noted that PB is Caroline's biggest fan, or at least the most loyal one I've seen on this forum. His criticism is always meant constructively.
    Yes, thank you for the clarification.

    I'm glad Caroline has such a positive attitude. No I'm off to try to buy an IceNetwork pass to watch the event.

  8. #98
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
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    Good for Caroline. Glad to hear she hasn't obsessed about her weight.

    When I've lost weight, it's always been primarily through exercise. It's a lot healthier and more fun than dieting, for me anyway.

  9. #99
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    It's easy to say anything we want anonymously on a message board.

  10. #100
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Zhang was dealing with a growth spurt/body change. This is where I have the biggest problem with the weight discussion- it's one thing if athletes in their 20s and 30s are having issues with conditioning/staying in shape, but in something like skating, where peak performance often occurs in early to mid teens, weight gain and filling out is simply part of the growing process, it happens when you hit puberty around this age and it has NOTHING to do with fitness. You can't stay a kid forever. And if someone is brain-washed into thinking they're fat (on top of the struggles that come with adjusting to the new adult body), those thoughts can persist long afterwards and THAT is not healthy...
    Zhang didn't just fill out via puberty in the autumn of 2010. She let herself go and as a result she got fatter. She is now in better condition and it's not because her body chemistry suddenly reversed itself.

    The quote you bolded is misleading. It says she hasn't radically changed her regime. That doesn't mean there have been no changes at all. Even aside from any specific plan, it comes down to how much effort the athlete puts into it. If you're just going through the motions, you're not getting much done. She has been training better and working on her fitness more, as they stated. Hence, better body.

    Maintaining a good body through puberty and a string of competitive disappointments may be difficult, but that's life. There are a lot of people with less of a support system than Caroline who have to face larger challenges. When you are a competitive athlete you get criticized and you either deal with it or you get out. Caroline put in focus and work that she needed to and, guess what, now she's doing better.

    Nobody has responded to my point of how society needs better education on this subject. Not everybody needs to look like a supermodel, that needs to be made clear, but at the same time most people are less healthy than they should be. Similarly, kids going through their difficult body changes need to be given reassurance and assistance so that they can adapt. Too many kids suffer from acne or weight issues or other developments that freak them out and make them feel insecure as a result of adults not giving them the proper knowledge and assistance (and then kids bully each other about these issues because they are scared about their own issues and/or ignorant about other peoples' issues).

    So, no, we absolutely should not ignore these problems in order to "make it easier" for the young person in question. By doing that, all we are doing is making it worse for them and making the World as a whole less informed place. Proper nutrition and exercise need to be taught and given real importance. The public needs to stop buying all of the unhealthy crap that corporations are selling. Why do you think people in France, including their teenagers, are significantly less fat than people in America? I assure you it's not because they go through puberty any less.

  11. #101
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    No, it's apparently because French women smoke , at least in part.

    So much for health.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...=hp:mainpromo9

  12. #102
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    All due respect, Blades, you haven't said much worth debating. Yes, society needs stronger education on the subject of health and sexuality. However, the question, as it pertains to Golden Skate, is do comments about skater's fitness and weight etc contribute to making the world a more informed place?

  13. #103
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    However, the question, as it pertains to Golden Skate, is do comments about skater's fitness and weight etc contribute to making the world a more informed place?
    Yes, since everyone here lives on planet Earth, as far as I know. There are too many people who say "no we can't talk about that". I can only imagine that is the way they approach their own friends and family. If anyone reading this changes their view, then a positive change has been made.

    Anyway, back to the French, they eat much healthier and get more physical activity. Traditionally anyway. The percentage of French people being overweight is now on the rise as a result of American habits entering into their culture more prominently.

    If you eat margarine, stop. Throw it away and never eat it again. Butter is far more healthy. Do not eat things that have high fructose corn syrup. In general it's very important to stay away from an excess of sugar and salt (especially the former). Any fast-food restaurant chain, and many seemingly better "sit-down" restaurants, load their food with it. Processed food is especially full of it too. Anything that comes packaged you should automatically be wary of, unless you read the label first. Even orange juice is something you usually want to stay away from, unless it is fresh-squeezed. Do not eat anything made with white flour (and that doesn't necessarily mean "Wheat Bread" is much healthier than "White Bread" either - http://www.theloseweightdiet.com/blo...e-wheat-bread/). Do not eat white rice and regular white potatoes.

    The American diet is filled with junk. Even when the American diet tries to be healthier, the whole idea about "not eating fat" is totally wrong. You need to eat the correct kinds of fat. Most of these seemingly healthy "fat free" foods are bad for you. What's also scary is that some of the truly healthy foods are being hurt by modern means of cultivation, with pesticides and genetic manipulation designed to make the crop bigger without other considerations taken into account. That's less relevant to the main point at hand, but still another example of how unaware most people are about what is actually going into their bodies.

  14. #104
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    1. Really, Blades? So someone saying "Tessa Virtue has Hottentot Venus thighs" or "she's on the road to fat" (both have been stated here, though not in this thread) contributes to making the world a more informed place? I would disagree with that.

  15. #105
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Perhaps not that in itself, but rather the examination of if she is indeed overweight or not for a competitive skater with her body type. If an athlete isn't maintaining themselves properly then it should be talked about. Not talking about it means that people want to give leeway to someone who may not be pushing themselves as hard as an athlete who is 100% committed should be. Or it could mean people feel uncomfortable about their own bodies. If that is indeed the case, then it is probably because they do not have good diets and correct amounts of exercise and thus, instead of thinking about how to improve the situation, they instead feel anger and resentment when the topic of someone being overweight is brought up.

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