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Thread: All Things Ice Dance: Canadian

  1. #181
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Those who do not learn from history (or from criticism) are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

    A better way to approach things is to say, always, I am not perfect. What can I do to improve? How much worse when to say, I'm perfect, I do not need to learn anything, and I will beat you over the head until you admit my perfection?

    If you don't like the advice, you can always ignore it, but if you beat up people verbally, they will never tell you the back of your costume makes you look like the south end of a north travelling elephant. They will just giggle.

    In my business (which was engineering, back when I was working), it was easy to tell second raters in a field other than your own because they were the loudest ones claiming to be first rate. Coaching may be different...but I don't think so. The best always know what they don't know and are eager to improve.

  2. #182
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    doris..Now that's what I'm talkin' about !

    Skate Canada ? Skate Canada has a lo-o-o-ong history of putting all their eggs in one basket , which can often lead to backing the wrong horse. ( mix,mix )

    I wish I could feel they always gave full support to all those most deserving. Unfortunately , there often seems to be an element of not wanting to back down once they've made a pronouncement , in spite of ample evidence that they should.

  3. #183
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    My objection to the way Skate Canada execises power goes back over twenty years, not only in ice dance (but this is an ice dance thread). I object not only moral grounds, but on stylistic grounds as well. These guys just ain't slick enough for my taste.

    They may still be smarting because the first Canadian World Champions, in ice dance, won it for France, because they just weren't feeling the love in Canada. I do wish Skate Canada could open up the competition more. Especially because they have a history of backing the wrong horse and ending up with egg on their face (remix, Colleen).

  4. #184
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Also, much of the success of Skate Canada's dance program owes itself to Russian coaches...in the very Canadian town of Detroit.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    Also, much of the success of Skate Canada's dance program owes itself to Russian coaches...in the very Canadian town of Detroit.
    Hmmm - yes Z/S and now K/C are based in Detroit - but I would also say that the USFSA's dance program is not exactly home grown either in terms of coaching. The last time I checked D/W are not exactly using American choreographers either....

  6. #186
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyhey View Post
    Hmmm - yes Z/S and now K/C are based in Detroit - but I would also say that the USFSA's dance program is not exactly home grown either in terms of coaching. The last time I checked D/W are not exactly using American choreographers either....
    This is true, heyhey, but you miss my point. For Canadian fans to say that the success of Skate Canada's dance program (or for that matter, American fans of USFSA's) is due mostly to Skate Canada's methods of determining who gets more funding, who gets more politicking, etc...is untrue, because most of the success is due to the coaching team and the skaters.
    Last edited by blue dog; 04-20-2012 at 10:39 AM.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue dog View Post
    This is true, heyhey, but you miss my point. For Canadian fans to say that the success of Skate Canada's dance program (or for that matter, American fans of USFSA's) is due mostly to Skate Canada's methods of determining who gets more funding, who gets more politicking, etc...is untrue, because most of the success is due to the coaching team and the skaters.
    I agree that success is due to the coaching team and the skaters themselves...hopefully over the next decade we will see more dance schools in both North America and in Europe....

  8. #188
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyhey View Post
    I agree that success is due to the coaching team and the skaters themselves...hopefully over the next decade we will see more dance schools in both North America and in Europe....
    And, hopefully, Asian skaters (the Shibutanis and the Hasegawas notwithstanding) will start to become a factor in ice dance, as well!

  9. #189
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    And yet, the one Canadian dance school which has enjoyed great international success in recent years (Scarborough), is being pilloried in this thread with suggestions that their skaters are being promoted over more deserving teams, and that their #2 team should go elsewhere.

  10. #190
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    And yet, the one Canadian dance school which has enjoyed great international success in recent years (Scarborough), is being pilloried in this thread with suggestions that their skaters are being promoted over more deserving teams, and that their #2 team should go elsewhere.
    That is the opinion of those people, Dragonlady. Not everyone will agree with you. And, I agree with them-- the Lanes are great coaches, but perhaps it's time to learn from other coaches. It will only help to make Ralph and Hill better. We're not saying close down the Lane school; we're saying let Kharis and Asher see what else is out there. These are the skaters who left their original training bases-- if you've followed dance for any length of time, you can see that sometimes, as Sheryl Crowe sang, "A change will do you good."

    Grishuk/Platov
    Belbin/Agosto
    Virtue/Moir
    Weaver/Poje
    Dubreuil/Lauzon
    Torvill/Dean (even Torvill and Dean!)

    Even Juris Rasgulajevs himself, one of their coaches, left his original training base to skate with Linichuk/Karponossov.

  11. #191
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Sometimes a team goes away for a bit, and then comes back, for example Capellini & Lanotte. And yet the change did them good too.

  12. #192
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    And I've said it before, and will say it again.... I think Skate Canada should go get some extra funds, and then sponsor opportunities throughout the year for the coaches and competitive teams from Novice onward to all work together through intensive training camp long weekends. These could include special guest choreographers and dance coaches and off-ice experts and maybe even some sport psychologists. I'm thinking once per month from April to December, with the camps being more focused on the competitors who are continuing on in the season through qualifying events (ie. after Sectionals, then only those going to Challenge, and then after Challenge only those going to Nationals). Each of the elite coaching teams in Canada are stellar in their own way. I wouldn't say that Scarborough is better than Waterloo or Montreal or Barrie, or BC. And many of the elite clubs in Canada are close together (except for BC). By rotating the teams around the coaches, the teams will learn different perspectives, potentially avoid "getting into a rut", and develop as more well-rounded skaters and competitors. For those teams that train in places with low numbers, they would benefit from skating around other teams without having to leave their home clubs. I think the overall quality of the skating will improve immensely, which will only help us internationally. This would take a lot of money and cooperation, but that's the kind of thing that businesses could perhaps get behind and sponsor through Skate Canada. And we'd have to take into special consideration BC, since the traveling would be so expensive and far for these folks, but they should be part of the "Team Canada" approach. (Maybe there are some successful BC companies who would like to give these kids and coaches flights.)

  13. #193
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    I'm not opposed to skaters changing coaches per se, but to suggest that a team leave a successful school to go to Monteal to train with a new coaching team (D&L or W&L) with no international success to date, seems to me to be a very bad idea.

  14. #194
    Trixie Schuba's biggest fan! blue dog's Avatar
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    I understand that D/L and W/L aren't as successful as the Lanes, but just how successful are they, outside of what they did with Crone/Poirier?

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I'm not opposed to skaters changing coaches per se, but to suggest that a team leave a successful school to go to Monteal to train with a new coaching team (D&L or W&L) with no international success to date, seems to me to be a very bad idea.
    I wouldn't dismiss either D&L or W&L quite so fast. They are not "newbies". Both coaching teams have spent their lives in the sport, and have achieved their own international results. When looking at W&L, she has a masters in sport psychology and he has a masters in kinesiology. All together with their own competitive experience, I think it speaks volumes why the BC teams are doing so well, including internationally at Junior. Both coaching teams are well respected and known by many judges and tech specialists around the world. It is only a matter of time before one or more of their teams place as high or higher internationally as Crone/Poirier did or even Ralph/Hill.

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