All Things Ice Dance: Canadian | Page 10 | Golden Skate

All Things Ice Dance: Canadian

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Those who do not learn from history (or from criticism) are doomed to repeat the same mistakes.

A better way to approach things is to say, always, I am not perfect. What can I do to improve? How much worse when to say, I'm perfect, I do not need to learn anything, and I will beat you over the head until you admit my perfection?

If you don't like the advice, you can always ignore it, but if you beat up people verbally, they will never tell you the back of your costume makes you look like the south end of a north travelling elephant. They will just giggle.

In my business (which was engineering, back when I was working), it was easy to tell second raters in a field other than your own because they were the loudest ones claiming to be first rate. Coaching may be different...but I don't think so. The best always know what they don't know and are eager to improve.
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
doris..Now that's what I'm talkin' about !

Skate Canada ? Skate Canada has a lo-o-o-ong history of putting all their eggs in one basket , which can often lead to backing the wrong horse. ( mix,mix )

I wish I could feel they always gave full support to all those most deserving. Unfortunately , there often seems to be an element of not wanting to back down once they've made a pronouncement , in spite of ample evidence that they should.
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
My objection to the way Skate Canada execises power goes back over twenty years, not only in ice dance (but this is an ice dance thread). I object not only moral grounds, but on stylistic grounds as well. These guys just ain't slick enough for my taste.

They may still be smarting because the first Canadian World Champions, in ice dance, won it for France, because they just weren't feeling the love in Canada. I do wish Skate Canada could open up the competition more. Especially because they have a history of backing the wrong horse and ending up with egg on their face (remix, Colleen).
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Also, much of the success of Skate Canada's dance program owes itself to Russian coaches...in the very Canadian town of Detroit.
 

heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
Also, much of the success of Skate Canada's dance program owes itself to Russian coaches...in the very Canadian town of Detroit.

Hmmm - yes Z/S and now K/C are based in Detroit - but I would also say that the USFSA's dance program is not exactly home grown either in terms of coaching. The last time I checked D/W are not exactly using American choreographers either....
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Hmmm - yes Z/S and now K/C are based in Detroit - but I would also say that the USFSA's dance program is not exactly home grown either in terms of coaching. The last time I checked D/W are not exactly using American choreographers either....

This is true, heyhey, but you miss my point. For Canadian fans to say that the success of Skate Canada's dance program (or for that matter, American fans of USFSA's) is due mostly to Skate Canada's methods of determining who gets more funding, who gets more politicking, etc...is untrue, because most of the success is due to the coaching team and the skaters.
 
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heyhey

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 31, 2011
This is true, heyhey, but you miss my point. For Canadian fans to say that the success of Skate Canada's dance program (or for that matter, American fans of USFSA's) is due mostly to Skate Canada's methods of determining who gets more funding, who gets more politicking, etc...is untrue, because most of the success is due to the coaching team and the skaters.

I agree that success is due to the coaching team and the skaters themselves...hopefully over the next decade we will see more dance schools in both North America and in Europe....
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
I agree that success is due to the coaching team and the skaters themselves...hopefully over the next decade we will see more dance schools in both North America and in Europe....

And, hopefully, Asian skaters (the Shibutanis and the Hasegawas notwithstanding) will start to become a factor in ice dance, as well!
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
And yet, the one Canadian dance school which has enjoyed great international success in recent years (Scarborough), is being pilloried in this thread with suggestions that their skaters are being promoted over more deserving teams, and that their #2 team should go elsewhere.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
And yet, the one Canadian dance school which has enjoyed great international success in recent years (Scarborough), is being pilloried in this thread with suggestions that their skaters are being promoted over more deserving teams, and that their #2 team should go elsewhere.

That is the opinion of those people, Dragonlady. Not everyone will agree with you. And, I agree with them-- the Lanes are great coaches, but perhaps it's time to learn from other coaches. It will only help to make Ralph and Hill better. We're not saying close down the Lane school; we're saying let Kharis and Asher see what else is out there. These are the skaters who left their original training bases-- if you've followed dance for any length of time, you can see that sometimes, as Sheryl Crowe sang, "A change will do you good."

Grishuk/Platov
Belbin/Agosto
Virtue/Moir
Weaver/Poje
Dubreuil/Lauzon
Torvill/Dean (even Torvill and Dean!)

Even Juris Rasgulajevs himself, one of their coaches, left his original training base to skate with Linichuk/Karponossov.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Sometimes a team goes away for a bit, and then comes back, for example Capellini & Lanotte. And yet the change did them good too.
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
And I've said it before, and will say it again.... I think Skate Canada should go get some extra funds, and then sponsor opportunities throughout the year for the coaches and competitive teams from Novice onward to all work together through intensive training camp long weekends. These could include special guest choreographers and dance coaches and off-ice experts and maybe even some sport psychologists. I'm thinking once per month from April to December, with the camps being more focused on the competitors who are continuing on in the season through qualifying events (ie. after Sectionals, then only those going to Challenge, and then after Challenge only those going to Nationals). Each of the elite coaching teams in Canada are stellar in their own way. I wouldn't say that Scarborough is better than Waterloo or Montreal or Barrie, or BC. And many of the elite clubs in Canada are close together (except for BC). By rotating the teams around the coaches, the teams will learn different perspectives, potentially avoid "getting into a rut", and develop as more well-rounded skaters and competitors. For those teams that train in places with low numbers, they would benefit from skating around other teams without having to leave their home clubs. I think the overall quality of the skating will improve immensely, which will only help us internationally. This would take a lot of money and cooperation, but that's the kind of thing that businesses could perhaps get behind and sponsor through Skate Canada. And we'd have to take into special consideration BC, since the traveling would be so expensive and far for these folks, but they should be part of the "Team Canada" approach. (Maybe there are some successful BC companies who would like to give these kids and coaches flights.)
 

Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
I'm not opposed to skaters changing coaches per se, but to suggest that a team leave a successful school to go to Monteal to train with a new coaching team (D&L or W&L) with no international success to date, seems to me to be a very bad idea.
 

blue dog

Trixie Schuba's biggest fan!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
I understand that D/L and W/L aren't as successful as the Lanes, but just how successful are they, outside of what they did with Crone/Poirier?
 

NorthernDancers

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 15, 2010
I'm not opposed to skaters changing coaches per se, but to suggest that a team leave a successful school to go to Monteal to train with a new coaching team (D&L or W&L) with no international success to date, seems to me to be a very bad idea.

I wouldn't dismiss either D&L or W&L quite so fast. They are not "newbies". Both coaching teams have spent their lives in the sport, and have achieved their own international results. When looking at W&L, she has a masters in sport psychology and he has a masters in kinesiology. All together with their own competitive experience, I think it speaks volumes why the BC teams are doing so well, including internationally at Junior. Both coaching teams are well respected and known by many judges and tech specialists around the world. It is only a matter of time before one or more of their teams place as high or higher internationally as Crone/Poirier did or even Ralph/Hill.
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
I wouldn't dismiss either D&L or W&L quite so fast. They are not "newbies". Both coaching teams have spent their lives in the sport, and have achieved their own international results. When looking at W&L, she has a masters in sport psychology and he has a masters in kinesiology. All together with their own competitive experience, I think it speaks volumes why the BC teams are doing so well, including internationally at Junior. Both coaching teams are well respected and known by many judges and tech specialists around the world. It is only a matter of time before one or more of their teams place as high or higher internationally as Crone/Poirier did or even Ralph/Hill.

Thanks NorthernDancers, I don't like to see these 'new' coaches dismissed out of hand. Both D&L and W&L studied for years with well-known international coaches, surely they may have been taking notes.

I, for one, never thought R/H should move to either of them, because I don't think they have the political power (in Canada) to be of help.
 
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Dragonlady

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
I'm not dismissing D&L or W&L out of hand. But I don't see the point in gambling with an expensive move to a new city with additional expenses to train with coaches with no proven record. Neither of these kids' families is awash in money that they could afford to make such a change just for the sake of making a change.
 

slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Moving to another city and a new coach should only be undertaken after serious consideration of the costs, the possible benefits, and an honest assessment of one's ability to work hard and improve. If I was deciding, the coaches without proven ability would be crossed off my list at the outset.
 
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slipslidin

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Well, what about Paul and Islam? They are a beautiful looking young couple, with ready-made matching lines, just for a start. They appear to have all the basics, and no obvious flaws. I was not the only person to be excited about their prospects, but they have had a rocky couple of years. Somehow I can't help questioning the decisions made on their behalf, competing injured, unflattering costumes, the choice of a free dance about spousal abuse. It seems to me they could benefit by moving to a larger pond. Perhaps they have been too much the centre of attention, and are being smothered by advice.
 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Speaking of Canadian Ice Dance...

I tried to read the All Things Canadian Ice Dance topic but got lost in the rhetoric. Anyway, here is one of Canada's past (maybe best looking couple!) ice dance teams that contributed to Canada's success in ice dance. This explains why Canada has such a strong tradition in ice dance champions:

Barbara Berezowski and David Porter - 1975 Skate Canada FD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UAgkuJHbpo&feature=relmfu

The footage is old, but fun to watch.
 
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