13 kjc 13..No offense, but I think your question is too simplistic.
First of all, I assume people were watching the competition . I assume people are not looking to the numbers without reference to what they've seen at a particular competition , or without reference to the group of skaters we've been watching all season , through a number of events. They're expecting a national bump and make allowances for it. It's only then, when the scores still seem wildly out of proportion to the scores of the other skaters they've seen, that they turn to the outside numbers for clarification.
In the case of K/GS at US nats. , I thought they skated well , had some great lifts that weren't always smooth, and maybe had some other minor problems. I 've thought they showed a lot of promise for a couple of years , but I was OK with H/D passing them by a bit ( of all the new teams we've seen this year, they are the ones who fit together best from the get-go ) .I was also OK with K/GS placing ahead of C/B ( both very fine skaters, with a major height differential to compensate for ).
So. Allowing for, say, a high-ish national bump ..5 points...and when looking at the NHK scores , realizing NHK was not K/GS's best skate... maybe their natural fit would put them say, somewhere in the 80's ... lower or higher depending on how they skate, and allowing for different panels ... ( bump-deducted , an 87.18 FD at their Nationals being entirely reasonable ).. In other words , they don't yet belong on Mrs.P's list.. nor do H/D or C/B.. but in another year or two, any of them might ,on any given day , depending on how they develop.
G/P do not belong on that list yet either , nor R/H or P/I ...but again , any of them might deserve those kind of scores in the future..in a couple of years O/W might be knocking on that door as well..depending on how all of them develop. My eyes tell me G/P belong firmly in this second tier NA pack, and along with the second tier Europeans , it's quite a log jam.
You know , people keep saying "Paul was our National champion " , as if that should count for something extra. NO. He wasn't. Paul and Vanessa were. It's the team that counts, and this team is not anywhere near C/P's calibre..yet. It's obvious to the naked eye, without checking every element.
Now, C/P were our champions in the absence of V/M ( I don't think there can be a question in anyone's mind that had they been there, V/M would have won. ) I know C/P worked very hard , but still, they won over W/P by a very slim margin, and it was a debatable decision. ( I say that because it was debated at length, here and elsewhere ) The distinction between the two couples was considerably clearer to the judges at World's. But I don't think it's that C/P were dropped so much as that W/P were recognised. Perhaps some combination of the two.
Yes, C/P had been 7th the previous year , but that was in the absence of a number of teams who'd been either ahead of them, or in direct contention. Yes, they may have been undermarked at the Olympics, somewhat ( but not by 7 places, by 2 from the previous world's , and we saw the return of D/S and D/S ) Yes. They worked hard and improved before 2010 World's, but the 7 place differential from Olympics is a bit misleading, due to the post-Olympic shuffle.They moved up 5 places from 2009 (12) World's to 2010 (7) but still, had some help due to other teams retiring , being injured , etc.( I think there were 3 or 4, IIRC ) By 2011, some teams were making a comeback, and some undeniably good teams were present that C/P had never faced at World's before .. notably, W/P and S/S. ( I'm not bringing in the Russians, because that's a whole other can of worms.) Leaving aside the weirdness that often scrambles a world's following an Olympics , they moved from 12th to 10th in 2 years..I think the international judges had a pretty consistent idea of their abilities...and G/P are not there, yet.
Why am I even bringing this up ? Because around C/P, there was always a steady drumbeat of P/R..they'd been so badly treated at one GP , that Carol Lane actually threw up..they were horribly robbed at Oly's, but look ! they improved 7 spots at world's ( never mind the people who withdrew ) ..Ooo, they're getting choreo from CD, look out world.. they are the new T/D.. They'll change the face of figure skating.. They've beaten W/P time and again... just forget that it was by very slim margins, and only at home.. No , no look at 2010 SA.. ( Forget W/P's mistake at SA , which apart from World's, was the only other time they met internationally , I think..)
The hype was never-ending.. And now, you can see signs of the same sort of campaign growing around G/P , most undeservedly, IMO..and unless we decry it loudly at the outset, we'll be hearing before the start of next season.. how far ahead they finished of the other teams in the top 5 or 6 , and how phenomenally close to V/M and W/P, after only a few months together..and those dubious scores will be held up as proof of their excellence.. no matter what we see on the ice.
Last edited by colleen o'neill; 02-05-2012 at 05:56 PM. Reason: sp.
Congratulations 13KJC13, no Canadian ice dancers have been harmed in your scenario. However I feel that you are a skilled debater, carefully leading us to your point, so I'll try to answer. I would throw out K/G-S NHK score and apply the National deduction to their national score.
Last edited by slipslidin; 02-05-2012 at 04:17 PM.
Hellooo, slipslidin...where you been hidin' ?