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Thread: All Things Ice Dance: Canadian

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipslidin View Post
    Do you know this for sure? I have been looking for a definitive answer. Thomas will be 21 this month, so I thought that would make him too old for ISU events, and, of course I thought that the Canadian Junior champions they had to move up. I was afraid they might have ended up in limbo.
    The male partner can be 21 but not 22 so the 2012/13 season will be their last season of Junior eligibility. As Canadian Junior Champions they had to move up at nationally, but not internationally.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    The male partner can be 21 but not 22 so the 2012/13 season will be their last season of Junior eligibility. As Canadian Junior Champions they had to move up at nationally, but not internationally.
    So Nicole will still be junior-eligible even turning 20 in October?

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by slipslidin View Post
    Yes it is, and they're probably not an easy mark. They also got together this spring and there is no reason to imagine they won't improve.
    First you suggest that G&P would get nowhere internationally, and when I point out that a team with a similar background finished 10th at Worlds this season, you tell me that G&P won't be beating them because they'll get better, well so will G&P. And G&P will benefit from being the #1 team at their rink whereas H&D will be #3 at their rink. Poirier is certainly a better skater than Donohue. Piper is on a par with Madison, so my thinking isn't unreasonable.

  4. #94
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    Wait - if there's no reputation at play, how would one benefit from being the number one?

  5. #95
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    Rules for junior eligibility:

    "in International Junior Competitions and ISU Junior Championships a
    Junior is a Skater who has met the following requirements before July
    1st preceding these Events
    :
    i) has reached at least the age of thirteen (13);
    ii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and Men in
    singles competition; and
    iii) has not reached the age of nineteen (19) for Ladies and the age
    of twenty-one (21) for Men in Pair Skating and Ice Dance
    competition
    ."

    Nicole Orford turned 19 last October, and Thomas Williams turns 21 this month.
    As they will be 19 and 21 on July 1st 2012, they will be ineligible for international junior competition.

    They are #28 on the ISU World Ranking list, but #21 on the Seasons Best list, so they are eligible for at least one GP invitation.
    Last edited by chuckm; 04-09-2012 at 06:50 PM.

  6. #96
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    Thank you chuckm. I was beginning to think I had slipped into some twilight zone, where everything I said seemed to be misunderstood, and I couldn't understand what I read. I still would like to know if the first six teams will be funded again this year.

  7. #97
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    No, she has to be no older than 18. I thought she was younger. Do they qualify for a GP spot based on their ranking or the season high score list?

    Skate Canada is funding top 6 last I heard. Unless they changed that again.

  8. #98
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    Re : funding... I'm really curious to know for sure.. I know it was always top 5 ( for eons) ...but an exception was made for the year just passed to compensate for V/M's absence at nationals the year before. It would have been unfair to snatch back the #5 team's earned funding when V/M stepped back in. But will that increase hold for the upcoming season ? AFAIK , the other discplines' funding stayed at top 5 ( am I right ?) So, the extension would be unfair , now that we've returned to normal circumstances , unless it was extended across all categories. ( Pretty expensive.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by isabella duncan View Post
    Good retort ImaginaryPogue! This is a good question that I wish Dragonlady responded to because Dragonlady's inconsistent arguments (reputation does not matter but it matters that G/P are the #1 in their club) do tie in with other posters' suggestion that R/H should change coaches. There is the perception that they are put at a disadvantage training with G/P because with G/P being the #1 team, G/P would get most of the attention.

    R/H were the Nationals champions three years in a row. They have had international assignments as Juniors and Seniors. If, indeed, Carol Lane plays favourites, how could R/H do relatively well, then? It does not come across as logical to me that R/H leave Carol Lane either for Wing and Lowe or Dubreuil and Lauzon, considering that these coaches have not been as successful as Carol Lane.

    If R/H go train under Wing and Lowe, they will be training with O/W; under Dubreuil and Lauzon, with the Spanish team. Is it not better to pit themselves against G/P instead? A similar scenario seems to work well among V/M, D/W, the Shibutanis, Chock and Bates, and also among P/B, W/P, H/D.
    That's a good point. I think it has certainly benefitted V/M and D/W to train together. The lower level teams like Shibs and C/B are benefitting from a halo effect, and the fact that the Z/S camp isn't busting out with tons of teams. P/B and W/P similarly are helping each other out by training together, and H/D are getting the halo effect, although there are a ton of teams in the K/C rink. But I'm pretty sure that all of these teams would also be successful if they didn't skate together. I think it's the coaching that is making the difference. Many teams or one team, they would be successful. It's about degrees at this point, which matters when one is fighting for a medal, but I'm not sure this is the same with R/H who are just trying to establish themselves internationally.

    My concern is that for R/H to make some real improvements, they need to fix some basics, like their posture issues, and get some new material. These issues are consistent across all the Scarborough teams. Only Bent/McKeen seem to have mostly escaped it, although not completely. D/L have done a wonderful job in fixing other posture issues. Hasegawa's come to mind. D/L have beautiful technique and posture. I also think they would provide some new and intesting material for programs for R/H. It's a different perspective. And right now they could be the top team in the club, which would be a good position for them. I don't think W/L would be a good idea, since they are not as strong technicians in my opinion. I also don't think there would be a big enough change in program material.

  10. #100
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    I may be mistaken, but I think Dragonlady's thought is that being number one at your club is disireable because you stand to get the most cretaive attention from your coaches. But this is not the same as being granted undeserved reputation points from international judges, and it does not even guarantee a "political" advantage.

  11. #101
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    What is reputation?

  12. #102
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    ^ I think the way "reputation" is used in discussions of figure skating scoring it refers to the judges giving out high marks to someone just because they are last years world champion or whatever, without paying critical attention to the particular performance at hand. Isn't that it?

  13. #103
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    I don't know. It does seem like there should be a broader context for discussion of "reputation" and "politicking" though.

  14. #104
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    These days "reputation judging" is mixed up with "corridor judging. If "everone knows" that Patrick Chan's skating skills are in the 9 to 10 range, then a judge will be afraid of marking outside that range for fear of being the odd person out. I bet this happened under 6.0 judging, too. I can easily imagine a judge thinking, "Well, Michelle's performance didn't do anything for me, but she's !Michelle Kwan! and all the other judges will be giving her a 5.9 for that, so I better up my score from 5.7 to 5.8.

    About politics, I always felt that it was more about cronyism. Especially at the lower levels. I can easily imagine a famous coach cozying up to a judge before a competition featuring 50 non-desript beginners, and saying to his pal the judge, "I've got a pretty promising girl here; I think she is worth a look." And then the judge does give her a look and she finishes 7th instead of 23rd.

  15. #105
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    Politics is part of figure skating unfortunately, i am pretty sure there was strong behind the scenes work for Sale and Pelletier in 2002 once the judging panel became known, they clearly had inferior skating skills compared to the russian pair they needed the extra help to overcome that.

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