US Pair Teams of the Past: Where are they? | Page 3 | Golden Skate

US Pair Teams of the Past: Where are they?

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Lol this reminds me of a video on youtube I saw last week of Rockne Brubaker teaching a little girl how to do lifts; she was completely dead weight, which isn't surprising at that age. It reminds me of the Novice Championships that poster CoyoteChris brought up in his thread about attending Nationals; he said he'd rather watch anything else but a young boy trying to lift a young girl when he obviously doesn't yet have the strength to do so (btw said Championships was won by a full grown man, not a boy, with a little girl as his partner). :p

Here's a cute video I found that shows two youngsters trying to do a lift, with I think John Coughlin? helping them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkqM6Qhpp38&feature=related

I would hope that by the time they enter *Seniors* both the male & female pair know how to do the lifts without the female being dead weight. (8^O

To me the best male pair partner is strong enough to support a girl of any size, and for the USA I would say John Coughlin is that man. He's 6'1" and full of muscle, both of his female partners were no delicate flowers either ~ Caitlin 5'4" with a superb look on the ice, and Caydee 5'1" pure muscle ~ I'm not surprised he won a National Championship with each one. He's proven he doesn't need to skate with a 15 yr. old no bigger than 4'11" that weighs 80 lbs. tops.

Here's a great discussion by skaters that actually do skate pairs, and what they look for in a partner: http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/showthread0192.html

I like how that one young man defends the male pair partner and how HE doesn't need to have back problems the rest of his life. And the story about the 5'8" 120 lb. girl that partnered with the 6'4" 200 lb. ox of a man, the strength of Zeus no doubt! :biggrin:
 

tulosai

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
She's actually grown 1-inch since they've been together, from 4'8" to 4'9", and she's grown a little outwards as well. They shouldn't have any problem as long as she maintains her weight, which I heard was another reason his old partner left him b/c the weight regime was too much for her; she only grew to 5'0" after all, with Rockne being 5'9" (two-inches more than Shen & Zhao were). It seems Rockne isn't built as strong as Zhao was, and therefore his partner(s) need to be tinier in order for him to lift them. Jmho.

She may have grown an inch since they have been together but she has not grown in the past year unless she's actually taller than 4'9" now. I can't link tot he articles I want to link to because when I did it said my post was automatically moved and now I can't find it but there are articles beginning in late October of 2010 that list her as 4'9" and by the time of nationals in 2011 she was definitely 4'9".

Again, I am not claiming that she is definitely done growing or that she can't grow more, and actually, I do agree with you that her weight is likely to eventually have the bigger potential to be a concern as even if she did grow 3 or even 4 more inches the height differential would potentially be manageable on its own, but based on the past year I'd say it is definitely unlikely that she is growing to grow (height wise) much more.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
It is :) I actually just took it from the stock photos so I'm not positive how old she is but I'd guess around 14 :) I also totally understand about thinking of the avatars as the poster herself- I try not to but sometimes...

It's an avatar I made from a photo I took at US nationals in 2008... hard to believe it's been four years since I've been to a figure skating competition... gotta figure out how to go again soon!
 

ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
Isn't that from her SP opening pose from that season/ her nats-winning comp, Toni? You can just see enough of the dress to identify it, I think. I loved her programs and "look" that year. Personality plus and very age appropriate costume and choreo, but very winning, literally and figuratively. I was really struck by how well-put-together she was that year, not to put presentation over substance but her team that year really found great vehicles for her as an individual and as a girl of what, was it 14?

eta oops sorry to go way ot!
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Denney & Coughlin just solidified their position as the #1 pair Team of the USA at 4CC. :cool: And as one of the Top Pairs' in the WORLD, second only behind the phenomenal Sui & Han, which is saying a lot, as S&H are definitely the best in the world imho. They're the *only* ones doing a 4twist & a 4throw, nobody else even comes close. :thumbsup: And they're not just about the difficult element either, they also are SUPERB when it comes to presentation, they *are* the ones to beat. :bow:

Seeing as how D&C have one of the highest 3twists out there, I would say a 4twist is easily within their grasp. Not only that, Caydee Denney is more than capable of landing a 4throw imho. She's a very athletic skater and this should help. :)^)

For Donlan & Speroff, I say keep working on their sbs jumps & their speed, they have everything else in spades! And if they really want to compete with the World, not just the Americans, I say work on a 4twist or a 4throw. Jmho.

That said, I'm more hopeful for the American Pairs than I've ever been since Jenni Meno & Todd Sand retired in 1998. :)
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Isn't that from her SP opening pose from that season/ her nats-winning comp, Toni? You can just see enough of the dress to identify it, I think. I loved her programs and "look" that year. Personality plus and very age appropriate costume and choreo, but very winning, literally and figuratively. I was really struck by how well-put-together she was that year, not to put presentation over substance but her team that year really found great vehicles for her as an individual and as a girl of what, was it 14?

eta oops sorry to go way ot!

I do believe it was her SP, but I don't remember if it was at the start or the end LOL it's been a while! :laugh:

And, a little OT never hurt anyone.
 

claphappy

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Denney & Coughlin just solidified their position as the #1 pair Team of the USA at 4CC. :cool: And as one of the Top Pairs' in the WORLD, second only behind the phenomenal Sui & Han, which is saying a lot, as S&H are definitely the best in the world imho.

YEAH! WHAT'S A "EUROPE?"
Oh, wait. I'm being told it's a entire continent.

I'm sorry, this is all just my way of trying to ask, "In what world are Denney/Coughlin beating Savchenko/Szolkowy or Volosozhar/Trankov?" I mean, I don't think Sui/Han are the best in the world, but I can see the case for it. But, Denney/Coughlin as second? No.


Now, I'm gonna pull back & distance myself from the rest this comment, in the case that you merely had a lapse of memory or if I misunderstood you somewhere.
 
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Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
My second sentence was meant to be in relation to my first sentence, which is that Denney & Coughlin solidified their position as the #1 Pair Team of the USA at 4CC, finishing second only to Sui & Han, the best pair team in the World imho. :cool: So, yes, one can also say that D&C are amongst the best pair teams' in the world as well. Furthermore, yes, I think they can beat that German & Russian pair you just mentioned (i.e. Savchenko/Szolkowy and Volosozhar & Trankov). I don't consider either one unbeatable, nor Sui & Han for that matter. It's not like they're competing against G&G. :eek:

It's all about technical elements nowadays, and D&C have that in spades!!!! :thumbsup: And also their chemistry on ice is the best in the world imho. They only need to work on adding a 4throw & 4twist to be competitive with Sui & Han. And so do the rest. Also, of course, these are all athletic teams we're talking about here, so an improvement on line, line, line wouldn't hurt. ;)

MAY THE BEST PAIR TEAM WIN; BRING IT ON!!!! :rock:
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Surprised that nobody has mentioned Urbanski and Marvel (early 1990's). Oddball pair, she was quite a bit older (early 30's) and both were working adults. Athletic and a bit clunky, kind of the original Denney/Coughlin of that era.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I remember them but in no way/shape/form do they remind me of Denney & Coughlin. :eek:

Calla & Rocky were a rough & tumble "hard looking" pair. She looked like an old wrinkled bleach blonde brunette with a fake tan, and he a short Italian biker dude. They were about the same size and just an odd-looking un-aesthetically un-appealing pair imho. Actually I only remember their exhibitions, wherein they would throw on a pair of jeans & do a bunch of head-bangers, etc. Also, IIRC Calla worked as a bartender. (;^)

In contrast, Denney is an attractive young vivacious apple-cheeked 18 yr. old woman with tons of personality & charisma, and her partner John Couglin is a striking tall excellent pair partner with tons of strength. They just need to refine their movements, same as the top German pair & Russian pair; none of them have good line, let alone great. Jmho.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
I wouldn't describe them in quite as hard-edged a way as you do, Nadine. Though maybe you saw them in person and have a more accurate view. I knew them only from TV, and I kind of liked their "working-class hero" personas. I thought Calla was rather pretty, actually, but maybe I was just seeing what showed up on TV. Calla was indeed either a bartender or a waitress, and Rocky was a truck driver. I found them refreshing, though I never expected them to make it big internationally.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
they were known as the "waitress and the bartender" IIRC... and I loved watching them. kinda like Brasseur & Eisler.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Nadine, That post is a piece of wonderful writing, but it definitely doesn't correspond to what I'm looking at in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awrdSVuR4nw

I can only hope one day D/C have this pair's chemistry, lifts, and wow moments. This is brilliant. Thanks for mentioning them, bigsisjiejie - I'd never heard of them before.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
This is how I remember them (she looks like she's old enough to be his mother here): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7sPq2fr5i8&feature=related

Btw, I was going to mention Brasseur & Eisler, but then I thought it would be an insult to B&E. So I didn't. On that note, I wish Rocky would have met & teamed up with his wife, the lovely Isabelle Brasseur, way before he met Calla Urbanski. That pairing would have been magical, one look at their daughter is proof. :cool: :love:
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
they were known as the "waitress and the bartender" IIRC... and I loved watching them. kinda like Brasseur & Eisler.

I think it was "the waitress and the truck driver." Marval and his family (I think) actually owned a trucking firm, so it wasn't just him and a long-haul truck. But he did work as a driver, I think. God bless them; I think their time in skating broadened the sport for both participants and fans. Not only were they working class, but they were adults, so their earning power was what kept them going. (I hope they had some subsidies when they were national champs, but I know they did things like sell T-shirts to stretch the dollars and keep food on the table.)
 

ManyCairns

Medalist
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Country
United-States
Yep, waitress and truck driver, not bartender. They were 4-5 years apart, I don't think they look like parent-child. And though perhaps not sophisticated, she didn't give off a tramp vibe to me.

I would hardly call Denney "apple-cheeked" just to be honest -- she looks very hardened to me. Though I enjoy her skating with Coughlin more than I thought I would. Do think Roxette would be good music for them as I think Nadine said in another thread, though their music is kind of dated. And must add -- Coughlin and Denney's age disparity is more than Urb and Marval's was (8 years rather than 5), and Coughlin looks like he's pushing 30 to me rather than mid 20's, his actual age, probably mostly due to the receding hairline. Again, I enjoy D/C as a pair though.

Man, sorry to sound so nasty, I was just surprised at the comments on Urb-Marval.

Oh, well, all in the eye of the beholder I guess! :)
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I have nothing against Calla or Rocky individually, it's their skating that I'm talking about. In particular, pairs skating, two shall skate as one. It doesn't matter if one is Mother Teresa and the other St. Assisi outside figure skating, its' the skating that concerns me. But if an award was given for the most kind-hearted figure skater, et al, practically all of them would get gold medals; just read some of their bios. :) :thumbsup:

If a skater can't take criticism they're in the wrong sport. Same goes for many professions. Take for instance my eldest sister, when she was 15 yrs. old my mom brought her to see Eileen Ford in hopes of big fashion modeling, Eileen told her straight up "you're too short, you have to be at at least 5'9", but with your beautiful face you can do print work & ads" (then she gave my mom a list of print work ad modeling agencies in New York). And that's what she did. :) The hundreds of other young girls didn't fare so well. Eileen would just say "No"..."No"..."No, we don't way you"..."Next"..."Next" and so on. But if she liked you, she would take the time to tell you what you needed to work on or give you a list. It's like the documentary "Children of Theatre Street" (at the end of the video you can see many children crying because they were not selected): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Riap5pepjs

As for skating expenses, that has been discussed over & over ad infinitum. Yes, it's an expensive sport, and the parents' know that going on, which is why so many take second & third jobs, as well as their progeny. That's just the way it is.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
And here we all thought the skating federations set ridiculously high standards.
 
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