Modern Skating is Ugly – European Champions
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http://en.rian.ru/sports/20120207/171194117.html
Modern Skating is Ugly – European Champions
- Thread starter Taan
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
I love Volosozhar and Trankov for recognizing it and having the guts to say it. The level features have ruined death spirals in pairs skating completely. And why for all that is holy, is grabbing your skate blade a reusable level feature for pair lifts? It's completely unnecessary even once. The COP loves to pretend that complexity/difficulty should be heaped with rewards. Well, that's just wrong. It's a lazy way to make skating quantifiable. Every season there needs to be a review, and ugly moves should be singled out for deductions.
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2011
I think many will agree. I don't find beauty in much of what Robin and Aliona put out in their programs. i like this team, and they remind me of the beauty we have usually seen in the best Russian pairs. I hope they can find the difficult elements and thus the scores they need to win, without looking like contortionists. I find it sad there are not many pairs in the world that skate with the facets we have all come to love in Russian pairs. This is the first pair to soothe my eyes since the great Shen/Zhao. They do not have the big time atleticism, but there is such elegance, lovely line.
I hope to see another great pair like Elena/Anton.
It's good they speak their minds.
I hope to see another great pair like Elena/Anton.
It's good they speak their minds.
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- Joined
- Aug 27, 2003
You're so right about death spirals . . . They've become awful under COP! In fact, many times they look like mistakes! As a spectator, I miss the beautiful death spirals performed in the past. And when it comes to lifts, I'd much rather see a gorgeous, classic star or swan lift, fast and perfectly performed, than a difficult-but-slow reverse-rotational lift with odd positions.
In general I support COP, but it really does need to be changed and tweaked for pairs especially.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
Just thirding the feeling that death spirals are ruined. Maybe they should make them like they made the spiral sequence in ladies now- no levels, just a sore and then GOE. I also usually hate the blade grabbing. Maybe one time in TWENTY it looks not totally awful.
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- Sep 14, 2008
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Of course, there is no chance of a global skating strike to force the ISU to immediately fix the glaring CoP problems.
Right On, I'm glad they're speaking their minds, I feel the same exact way! 
Lol, this brings to mind what Johnny Weir said during Nationals, the COP expects him to turn from a Swan into a Deck of Cards just like that.
Or as he put it to gain a few more points one has to do a quad while sticking a finger up one's nose. 
Do away with the ugly grabbing of blade during the pairs' lifts & death spirals.
I echo those that find a gorgeous Star Lift to be breathtaking when done right with perfect extension and poise (aka Gretchen Donlan's).
Lol, this brings to mind what Johnny Weir said during Nationals, the COP expects him to turn from a Swan into a Deck of Cards just like that.
Or as he put it to gain a few more points one has to do a quad while sticking a finger up one's nose. Do away with the ugly grabbing of blade during the pairs' lifts & death spirals.
I echo those that find a gorgeous Star Lift to be breathtaking when done right with perfect extension and poise (aka Gretchen Donlan's). - Joined
- Nov 19, 2011
I agree with Trankov and everyone else here. It so happens that last night I watched (for the first time in a long while) John Curry's 1976 Olympic LP and Robin Cousins' 1980 Olympic LP. I then watched Plushenko's and Lysacek's Vancouver LPs. I was astounded by my own reaction. I've been following FS since Curry/Cousins times but I didn't realise it has changed so much. Of course I know that skaters are doing more difficult jumps, spins etc nowadays, but it's more than that. Skating itself seems to have changed.
And I agree about death spirals and spins too. They used to be used more as accents, to highlight particular notes in the music, for example. Skaters didn't use to go round and round endless as they do now.
And I agree about death spirals and spins too. They used to be used more as accents, to highlight particular notes in the music, for example. Skaters didn't use to go round and round endless as they do now.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
What is interesting about catch foot elements in pairs is that, unlike singles, catch foot elements are not a native part of pairs skating. In other words, before COP you maybe had a few instances of catch foot moves (M&D comes to mind) whereas in ladies you had these moves already in spins and spirals. To me, pairs skating is about how the man and the woman compliment each other, and the flexibility moves don't achieve that goal because they are only more difficult for the female. More importantly, most catchfoot positions are not visually appealing in pairs skating, particularly on lifts and death spirals.
I feel the pairs after B/S (or maybe T/M) are mostly ugly. I never think S/Z as a beautiful pair. They have ugly postures here and there, not to mention those lifts. How they got such high scores? I never know. All Chinese pairs' 3 split twist are non-split compared to B/S. They perform moves that need flexibility and they don't have that so make those moves even more ugly. But they collect good points.
You have a point there, bsfan, I honestly lost interest in pairs (except for the USA) after 2002. I do like Shen & Zhao and think they should be commended for never giving up, persevering, and staying in the game while into their mid-30's. However, Shen's positions come nowhere close to someone like Elena Berezhynia & Ekaterina Gordeeva. And though S&Z's throws were HUGE, the technique was not good; Zhao's feet always left the ice when he threw Shen. This is also what cost Artur Dmietriev the gold in 1994; his technique on replay was the same as Zhao's, whereas the split screen showed the correct way to do it, that of Sergei Grinkov, feet firmly planted on the ice and the flow he still carried after throwing Katia into the air. These little things may not seem like much, but they do matter, especially when it comes time to deciding who should win ~ apples versus oranges ~ that was the famous saying at the 1994 Olympics in Pairs.
I'd rather see an element done right with perfect technique versus a harder one with imperfect technique. Hopefully the powers-that-be are reading this thread and institute some changes to bring back the beauty in skating. Jmho.
However, Shen's positions come nowhere close to someone like Elena Berezhynia & Ekaterina Gordeeva. And though S&Z's throws were HUGE, the technique was not good; Zhao's feet always left the ice when he threw Shen. This is also what cost Artur Dmietriev the gold in 1994; his technique on replay was the same as Zhao's, whereas the split screen showed the correct way to do it, that of Sergei Grinkov, feet firmly planted on the ice and the flow he still carried after throwing Katia into the air. These little things may not seem like much, but they do matter, especially when it comes time to deciding who should win ~ apples versus oranges ~ that was the famous saying at the 1994 Olympics in Pairs. I'd rather see an element done right with perfect technique versus a harder one with imperfect technique. Hopefully the powers-that-be are reading this thread and institute some changes to bring back the beauty in skating. Jmho.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
To me, the element that I most enjoyed (and seems most destroyed, to me, by COP) in pairs were the pairs spirals. Male pair skaters aren't the most flexible of the bunch, and to see them trying to biellmannize their spirals makes that part of programs difficult to watch. I'd rather watch hip level spirals where the edge is steady, and are to the music.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
If it's ugly, don't do it. That would be real guts and real dedication.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
Their funding and livelihood depends on producing results for the Russian skating federation, as do some of the funding and livelihood of their team. They have more responsibilities than just their artistic ideal. Speaking out against the rules without ignoring them is a valid compromise in their situation.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
I'd add to this that sometimes the livelihood of their families and their own future depends on this in Russia. Unless I am mistaken/things have changed skaters who have produced stellar results for the federation over time continue to be taken care of by the federation once their competitive career ends; their parents are also often being given some money during the career and some of these parents are NOT well off. I agree totally that in their situation, this is a very valid compromise.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
Very true tulosai. And there is immense pressure from much higher up in the government on Russian skaters to produce good results now that they're headed into the Russia-hosted Olympics. No skater can be caught slacking or leaving points off the table, that just will not do. It's not the freest system in the world. But on the other hand, it does produce the best darn pairs skaters (and a lot of other great skaters in other disciplines) who don't have to worry as much financially and resource-wise. Pairs skating right now would be much less watchable without the Russian greats.
That is not to say I want the US or any other country to take after the Russian system. For all the success you see in a single-minded state-sponsored Olympics program, there are many more failures who wind up with not much support, education and skills to apply elsewhere in life. And even those who succeed are under pressure to keep quiet about abuse.
That is not to say I want the US or any other country to take after the Russian system. For all the success you see in a single-minded state-sponsored Olympics program, there are many more failures who wind up with not much support, education and skills to apply elsewhere in life. And even those who succeed are under pressure to keep quiet about abuse.
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
But they can choose to do something difficult and pretty, or something a little lower on BV but make it so pretty to score high GOE.
Many of the criticisms on ugly elements are due to poor execution by less skilled skaters struggling to do a higher level for points' sake, or something not suitable for them, due to lack of flexibility or strength, for example. The best in the sport find ways to win while optimizing their best and complying with the rules, not that the system is not to be modified and improved with skaters' inputs.
I remember way back when Paul Martini as a commentator often called death spirals ugly, like pulling a sack of potato. He and Underhill of course had gorgeous spirals and he found many Pairs just didn't bother to pay attention to them.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2011
A blade grab during lifts and a hand hold change during the death spiral makes the difference between levels, which is quite a few points. It may be possible to make the former... not so offensive looking, but repeating it in every lift, which the rules encourage, still gets wearying. The death spiral hand hold change is impossible to pretty up. At this level of skating where 1 or 2 points separate gold from silver, those aren't things you can throw away. Most of the top level pairs teams can do all those uglifying features while maximizing GOE, therefore it's not really optional for any of them if they want to win. The problem is one that has to be fixed in the rules, not by the skaters.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
You have a point there, bsfan, I honestly lost interest in pairs (except for the USA) after 2002. I do like Shen & Zhao and think they should be commended for never giving up, persevering, and staying in the game while into their mid-30's.
I'd rather see an element done right with perfect technique versus a harder one with imperfect technique. Hopefully the powers-that-be are reading this thread and institute some changes to bring back the beauty in skating. Jmho.
I agree with how the men look when they throw the lady. I hate it when the med look like they are throwing a bag of dirt, like what they are doing doesn't matter. All the Chinese men do it and Maxim is starting to do it with Tatiana as well and I hate it. I wish men would take pride in how they looked in the throw as much as the lady. Sadly that doesn't seem to matter now. Now all that seems to matter is how high the lady gets off the ice.
The death spiral is ugly with all the hand changes, the man comes to a dead stop and it's really looking bad even for the best skaters. Senior skating choreography has become too progressive and I would rather give skaters the option to put it in or leave it out as part of their choreography and not an element.
I disagree with him on the split twist, I notice he only wants to be credited for height and not steps before hand? That’s because he has a high twist and no steps. I suggest he works on his levels and not changing the rules.
Lifts can be pretty for those skaters, coaches and choreographers inovative enough to come up with pretty lifts. When they can't of course they will blame the rules, not themselves.
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