MEN - Short Program | Page 16 | Golden Skate

MEN - Short Program

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
2. I don't think he was that tight, seniorita, but I definitely think he was lesser than he's been with the rest of the elements. Less playful during the footwork, I felt.

Yes playful was maybe the word I should have used. He didnt look in good mood, that's what I thought, not that he didn't skate well. Maybe it's because he skates where he trains?

As for the fall etc, it was an observation, I didn't claim I was right and judges or controllers were wrong, but I m hardly the only person who comments/disagrees with scores and panel decisions sometimes.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Yes playful was maybe the word I should have used. He didnt look in good mood, that's what I thought, not that he didn't skate well. Maybe it's because he skates where he trains?

As for the fall etc, it was an observation, I didn't claim I was right and judges or controllers were wrong, but I m hardly the only person who comments/disagrees with scores and panel decisions sometimes.

Well, I think you were right. So I'll claim it for you.
 

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
I thought the judges were stingy. Chan and Dai's gap should have been wider. Chan skated everything very well except the touch down. Meanwhile, Dai's quad was UR, and also on his butt.

I beg to differ. Dai skated everything very well except for his quad and he was dinged by the judges appropriately. I don't think the gap should be wider at all.
I thought the judges were stingy with the PC's for both Patrick and Dai.
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
The transition from a poker face when Chan took the start position to his first smile did not look sincere. It wasn't an "honest" performance in my opinion. It looked well-rehearsed though.
 

RUS84

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
I someone can explain why Chan did not give a minus score for the fall?
Or that we Chan skates by their rules?
Finally he put at least the normal components of 8.5!
 

wonderlen3000

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
To me, he fell. But I would not go so far as to claim it corrupt judging. It was not a clear-cut butt-on-ice fall, and so I can accept a certain degree of subjectivity. But again, I would call it a fall if I were a judge. Anyway, Valentine's Day is coming. Perhaps the technical panel is in a love fest just as I am in a loving mood.:biggrin:

Maybe PChan did fall, but some force of the universe is against him and his 'BUTT IS OFF FROM THE ICE BY AN INCH'. So technically its not a fall...:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

I don't think the rule doesn't even explain clearly what is a real fall. It's the buttcheeks touching the ice? The hip? The thight and legs? What if you fall on ur hands and knees? or crush like Thomas Verner did last year???
 

questar

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
I someone can explain why Chan did not give a minus score for the fall?
Or that we Chan skates by their rules?
Finally he put at least the normal components of 8.5!

butt not touch ice..that's the reason maybe?
 

snowflake

I enjoy what I like
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
As for Amodio's lyric deduction (or lack of), for the nth time, it was not taken because a majority of judges didn't vote to take a deduction. The former is decided by the majority of the Tech Panel and the latter, majority of judges, please try not to confuse the issue here and attempt to compare an apple with an orange.

Not everyone has been here for nth years or read all posts. I didn't know this about the lyrical-deduction rule. Thought there was automatically a deduction(ok, I know someone must decide, should be the referee) like time violation. So it's up to the judges then :confused:

I wish two hands on the ice would always count as a fall. With the current rule it's to hard to decide. Actually I think if a skater slips and put one hand or any body part on the ice it should count as a fall. A fall is so little punished all he same. In this case Chan would have lost just one more point, right?
 

Brenda

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
I thou8ght Misha Gee in the past was actualy skating for Chia, obviously I was wrong!

Misha did skate for China a few years ago...and then after that I believe he was registered for some junior event representing Hong Kong, but didn't end up participating.
 

wonderlen3000

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
slightly? the second jump looks definitely downgrade or underrotated.

and He did wrong-edge jumps; flutz but didn't get wrong edge.

Both his quad and 3T is underrotated. Had he rotated fully even just on the 3T, his score will be in second and around 85+ range. Dai is known to underroated his second jump of 3+3 from time to time. His jumps are neat and small, but they are no where explosive like Oda, Kazuko or Hanyu.
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
The definition of a fall in figure skating is apparently not about butt touching the ice. It concerns if most of the body weight transfers from blades to body parts such as butts, hands, knees, etc. It involves a certain degree of subjectivity to determine if "most" of the body weight is not on the blades.
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Misha did skate for China a few years ago...and then after that I believe he was registered for some junior event representing Hong Kong, but didn't end up participating.
How many passports he has? Will he be skating for Korea as well since he is also partially of Korean descent. Or maybe Russian one day? He is literally a citizen of the world, the embodiment of multiculturalism.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Universal Sports break down the scores as such: Technical Elements, Presentation Score, Deductions, and Short Program. It is a decision made in advance and likely through a discussion among commentators, a decision of dumbing down to the level of the casual viewers. So calling PCS "presentation" mark does not prove his (Peter Carruthers?) failure to adapt to the new CoP era.

To me, calling PCS as presentation score is absolutely incorrect. The commentator was misleading the viewers. The word "presentation" gives the impression of "performance". 1/5 of PCS is performance and execution. And Dai got it higher than Chan because of Chan's lackluster performance.

I have to say that it was such a stupid effort from Peter Carruthers like Scott Hamilton has done.

1. All the judges gave Chan a -3 for that quad. Clearly, they thought it was a fall. Yes, I'm aware that you can get -3 without a fall, but to get straight -3s without a fall is unheard of. Hell, Chan doesn't always get straight -3s even when he does fall. I think he deserved the -1 fall deduction. I've seen lighter slips nailed, and to not nail Chan definitely will add fuel to the fire for the ABC brigade.

2. I don't think he was that tight, seniorita, but I definitely think he was lesser than he's been with the rest of the elements. Less playful during the footwork, I felt.

3. IMO, Dai's PCS > Chan's PCS at this competition. Not hugely, necessarily - the technical side of PCS tends to favour Chan and Chan's TES should be ahead of Dai's so Chan should be ahead anyway - but I felt that Dai ticked the PCS boxes better than Chan here.

I agree with you on #1 and #2. I think it should have been ruled as a fall. So Chan's score should have been 86.95 instead of 87.95. Patrick wasn't tight at all. In fact, he was too loose. Besides 4T, he did everything he was supposed to do and did very well. I think his interpretation was very fit in the theme and music. This is one of those themes that one could skate it in a careless fashion and still be ruled as great in interpretation. The only thing he was somewhat missing was his passion. So he got PE lower than Takahashi's. How much lower should he get compare with Takahashi? I can't tell since I'm not the judge and I wasn't there in the arena, like everyone else who has posted on the subject so far in this thread.

I disagree with your #3. As I've said, I believe Patrick took the edge on SS, TR, even CH. Both Chan and Takahashi got marks in IN ranged from 8.00 to 9.00. Chan got two 9.00 and two 8.00. Takahashi got one 9.00 and one 8.00. In the end, Chan's IN was 8.54. Takahashi's was 8.46. I don't see unfairness here. It was matter of tastes among the judges. If I were to mark IN on both skaters, I'd have given Chan a slight edge over Takahashi. But Takahashi was definitely better in PE!:yes:

So I'm not surprised that Chan's total PCS was a little bit higher than Takahashi's.

Seniorita is quite possibly the nicest person I have met in my years as a skating fan. She is super-friendly to other fans and open-minded about skaters who aren't her favorites, and doesn't expect everyone to like her favorites; I know this from personal experience. If you can't get along with her, I suggest you look to your own behavior and the language you use. Or utilize the ignore button for everyone who doesn't agree with everything you write.

Everyone knows that Seniorita is a nicest person. That doesn't mean that her view points are always correct. I think Wallylutz used a bit strong tones like always, but his arguments were knowledgable and reasonable.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
I wish two hands on the ice would always count as a fall. With the current rule it's to hard to decide. Actually I think if a skater slips and put one hand or any body part on the ice it should count as a fall. A fall is so little punished all he same. In this case Chan would have lost just one more point, right?

LOL, yes, rules should have been this and that AFTER Chan made this or that mistake. It'd not be an issue until Chan did it.
 
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