Skate Canada will be criticized mightily whoever they select. To my eye Lacoste has demonstrated that she has the goods to be a top ten skater, and Phaneuf has been top 5 or 6 (I forget) in the Worlds, so it comes down to their competion nerves. I don't know how a skater gets past that, to become a contender - but Joannie Rochette managed it - though it took her a long time.
Ladies' Short Program, Fri. 2/10 at 2:50 pm EST
- Thread starter Spun Silver
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Yes, but I didn't want to insult Russia and France and Canada all in the same post.
There are different ways to do things. But what I don't like is the idea that there are these king-makers (federation officials) that act like they are the big players in the game of figure skating, rather than the skaters. The skaters get pushed off to the side while the big shots strut and fret.
It would be perfectly fine to use Four Continents and Europeans as qualifying events for Worlds. But then say so. It seems like there are not really any guidelines in place and the federations just make up the rules as they go along, to manipulate the results on an ad hoc basis.
In this situation, it is not fair to Lacoste because if Phaneuf had won nationals the Canadian Federation would have said, well, Phaneuf is the national champion so she goes to worlds. Since it didn't happen that way, now they say, "OK, two out of three?"
I would have no objection if Skate Canada had announced their policy beforehand in a straight-forward way. But this behind-the-scenes winking and nodding makes them look like just another bunch of crooks in a crooked sport.
veravina said:
And rightly so, in my opinion. They have brought criticism down upon themselves.
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- Aug 27, 2003
I agree with this. I always feel like Mao is underscored in PCS. Her basic skating skills and quality of movement is so far ahead of most of the field, yet this is barely reflected in the scores. To me, her step sequence in the short seemed twice as difficult as everyone else's--all those exquisite turns and twizzles--yet she makes it look effortless.
Here's what I don't get: Patrick Chan seems to get unbelievable PCS no matter how he skates, apparently because he has the best basic skating skills in the field. Same goes for Kostner, to a lesser extent. Yet other skaters like Mao, who to me seem vastly more talented than most of the field, do not get this automatic PCS boost. Would love if someone could explain why not.
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How are their relative speeds? Is Mao as fast as Kostner? (Carolina is super fast, but I've never been lucky enough to see Mao live.)
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re: Asada
Well, for a long time, she WASN'T the best skating skills skater of the field. When she was with Tarasova, Kim and Rochette both eclipsed her there (Kostner has been ahead of her for quite some time). Having seen her and no one else at 4CC, I'd say her scores were fair.
re: Phaneuf vs LaCoste
What Mathman said. This isn't about giving the ladies a chance to prove themselves in front of an international stage. This is about giving Phaneuf a second chance. And maybe a little bit sucking up to Orser (coach more Canadians!!!). Everyone seems to agree that Phaneuf has more potential to score higher than LaCoste. But the fact is, she's not outscoring LaCoste EVEN when LaCoste is making major errors. So how much, in the end, should potential be worth? I have to admit, should Phaneuf beat LaCoste here and get sent to Worlds, I'm gonna be rooting against her (or more accurately, I'm rooting against Skate Canada's actions and would like to see it backfire).
Well, for a long time, she WASN'T the best skating skills skater of the field. When she was with Tarasova, Kim and Rochette both eclipsed her there (Kostner has been ahead of her for quite some time). Having seen her and no one else at 4CC, I'd say her scores were fair.
re: Phaneuf vs LaCoste
What Mathman said. This isn't about giving the ladies a chance to prove themselves in front of an international stage. This is about giving Phaneuf a second chance. And maybe a little bit sucking up to Orser (coach more Canadians!!!). Everyone seems to agree that Phaneuf has more potential to score higher than LaCoste. But the fact is, she's not outscoring LaCoste EVEN when LaCoste is making major errors. So how much, in the end, should potential be worth? I have to admit, should Phaneuf beat LaCoste here and get sent to Worlds, I'm gonna be rooting against her (or more accurately, I'm rooting against Skate Canada's actions and would like to see it backfire).
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- Aug 27, 2003
What sets Mao apart is artistry, line, beautiful positions, extension, lightness, lovely flow, musical movement. It's not that she has the most speed or best edges or most powerful stroking. It's her presentation and artistry that's exceptional, and she doesn't get enough credit for it IMO.
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I noticed that too. It didn't hurt Miki, right?
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^ I agree here and it is not like Phaneuf is doing that great since worlds 2010. She did great there but many ladies in Lp went really bad in Torino anyway. And this is a case that they dont have a clear outstanding athlete to get the benefit of the doubt even if he had one bad skate at nationals. And if they dont give Lacoste the chance how would they know what she can do to Worlds.
Mathman re RF and FF, I thought mainly RF is using different competitions to send to worlds and olympics, and basically for the disciplines where they dont have clear frontrunners to send, but they do send the national champion and maybe second usually like they sent Menshov last year for his first ever international comp at 28 years old. But when it comes down to Bush or Dimitriev or even Voronov for the second or third spot, I can see why they test Euros first. In pairs they have the top three and then a pool of pairs that can do bad or not bad internationally, but last euros they sent G/E in euros based on their national appearance despite I/M having had a great gp season. In ladies I think they have so many options they wont know what to do with them.
I thought French federation doesnt do it though, or have I missed something? Maybe because they dont have so many top athletes to shuffle.
The only time I saw Mao and Carolina together was 2010 worlds and Carolina wasnt good there, so I cant compare their relative speed but Mao is so smooth and light like a butterfly, that even if she is slower than Carolina, she still looks very fast.
She got the highest PCS of the field which offset the fact that her TES trailed both Wagner and Kanako. I would say that she's getting enough credit for what she brings to the table, but I don't think her Scheherazade is a great program. Her FS is much better, though it seems a bit watered down now compared to what it used to be.
The best performance of the night for me was Ashley Wagner, who performed more interesting choreography with good transitions, timed perfectly to the music (see her spread eagle sequence), and connected with the audience. Aside from the 2-foot on the combo, she was spot on. Great 3Loop. Ashley was hindered by lack of an international reputation, but helped by the support from the crowd, and I'm glad to see her in medal position.
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- Dec 21, 2011
Yes, but I didn't want to insult Russia and France and Canada all in the same post.
I would interject that Russia and France BOTH pay for EVERYTHING unless I am much mistaken, while in Canada skaters pay the vast majority of their expenses themselves just like in the USA. To me (while, don't get me wrong, I do see definite problems with the Russian system) they are justified is sending whoever the want to get spots to a greater extent because (while the skaters do invest lots of time and emotion) they are footing the entire bill. Some might disagree with me that this is/should be a difference, but I think it's silly to ignore it.
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- Dec 21, 2011
I have seen both but unfortunately not together so I'm not POSITIVE as regards relative speed either, but my impression was/is that Mao is certainly fast; Carolina is faster but not by much.
I second that, I am really impressed with her skating skills everything in her skating is pure beauty, and her steps are soo fricken amazing to see!
Ashley was glorious!
She was the only one in this competition who I didn't feel nervous about. When she entered the rink for the warm-up she was radiating confidence and determination. I felt she couldn't wait to get out there and show what she can do. Just amazing all the improvements she made in less than one season. It was a joy to watch her.Mao is my favorite and I was most nervous about her. She wasn't perfect yet, but I think I see the results of Sato's approach - improving little by little. I thought her flip was better comparing even with what it was in the fall, the spins are great, the basic skating is much better than a year ago. 3A was UR and while she isn't gaining much by doing it she isn't loosing much either, so why not try if it makes her happy. I pray she goes to a new choreographer next year though. TAT made some great programs for her in the past, but I think it's time for a change. Hope her coaches will see it too.
A separate respect for Caroline Zhang.
Hope she'll continue to improve.- Joined
- Jun 21, 2009
If Skate Canada would be smart, in their choice for the only spot to the world. They should think about sending the only Canadian who has never pop this season and has been sensational this year.
Skate Canada should send Kaetlyn Osmond instead of Phaneuf and Lacoste.
Skate Canada should send Kaetlyn Osmond instead of Phaneuf and Lacoste.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T98De9Gbsqk
Kanako SP
Glad that she's in good shape. She's undermarked in PCS, but not by much. He musical interpretation is not as good as it should be.
Kanako SP
Glad that she's in good shape. She's undermarked in PCS, but not by much. He musical interpretation is not as good as it should be.
Is it just me or Mao's dress = big boobs?
Yes. http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0coO74y4Cb1ta/x610.jpg
I really don't know what's going on with this costume.
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