02-11-2012, 01:28 AM
This is exactly how I feel (except I really don't have an opinion on either of them when it comes to artistry.)
Originally Posted by skatingfan04
02-11-2012, 01:42 AM
Maybe Canada should pic their team on results, not potential. That might make Phaneuf clean up her skating, toughen up and just plain skate better! Must be demoralizing for their National Champ who has defeated Phaneuf every time this year. Officials/experts seem to never let sport just play out.
Originally Posted by SkateFiguring
02-11-2012, 02:03 AM
The thing is Amelie Lacoste has not exactly been shining, just better than Phaneuf recently. Phaneuf does have some good records, more experienced and liked by judges internationally. She also showed determination by leaving her mother figure of a coach recently and moved away from her comfort zone to Toronto to train with Orser, who is known for turning around some talents fast, almost miraculously but not that miraculouslly as to do it in weeks. At least Skate Canada didn't just pick her over Lacoste but is giving them both another chance to outshine the other convincingly. It's down to the wire tomorrow. They will have to make a decision, however difficult.
Originally Posted by tampro1
Of course there are down sides to this process, being criticized and hurting the two skaters' relationship and national team spirit among them. OTOH, the USFSA's system, last year and this, does not make any better sense or prove to serve them well.
02-11-2012, 02:13 AM
02-11-2012, 02:47 AM
Right, because even with her disaster of a skate, Cynthia still is .96 away from Amelie who missed her lutz combo all together. This speaks volumes to SC because it does show that the judges prefer Cynthia over Amelie. After watching both skaters, I still say send Cynthia. By the time Worlds rolls around. she will be better; it's been a short 8 weeks with Brian. If I were Amelie, I'd be ticked that Cynthia is that close in score even missing 2 jumps. At least Cynthia rotated the jumps fully and this time her spins were credited at a higher level than at Nats; because had her spins been credited at Nats, she would be the national champion.
Originally Posted by sky_fly20
I've been told by various sources tonight that SC really wants to send Cynthia to worlds as she is a safer bet; i can see why. As well, if Joannie comes back next season, which is a strong possibility, by that time Cynthia will be getting better results and may be even able to send 3 ladies to the Olympics, however, if Cynthia can't manage top 10 at Worlds this year, then I can see SC giving the spot to Joannie to regain the spots needed for the Olympics.
In my opinion, neither skated great tonight and by no means did Amelie really beat Cynthia i the short; they are virtually tied. The long will be a nail biter to say the least as they skate 1 right after the other. If Cynthia skates her long like she did at Nats, she will beat Amelie.
02-11-2012, 02:53 AM
I said if. I understand why they want Phanuef as they think she is more experienced and has a better record internationally but the long hopefully will determine and will be the last one. If Lacoste Wins, hope she doesnt have to battle Phanuef again in some B competitions
02-11-2012, 02:57 AM
No one is questioning who the judges prefer. But Cynthia has yet to beat Amelie this season. Poor Amelie...she thinks this is a sport. Sorry girl, it's not about what happens on the ice.
Originally Posted by lise
02-11-2012, 04:17 AM
I agree with Tempro1. Win or go home. This is making Skate Canada look like the French Federation.
02-11-2012, 05:18 AM
leave no stone unturned
I thought FF does what Russia does too, send the iffy skaters to Euros and the best goes to Worlds or Olys?Or no?
Originally Posted by Mathman
I remember only some drama in 2010 where they prediceded to send Ponsero to Euros and Amodio to Olympic Games.
On second thought that looks like Cyntia's and Lacoste situation, maybe I m just used to RF and FF deciding this way and the skaters know it too.
02-11-2012, 06:04 AM
That's what I thought at first, but then I remembered that popping is WORSE than falling.
Originally Posted by lise
For her 2a and solo triple, Amelie received 3.94 + .3 = 4.24
For her 2a and solo triple, Cynthia received 1.8 + 3.9 = 5.70
Cynthia's TES was .72 higher than Amelie's. She actually had a 4.7 advantage in base value, but had more -GOE. Cynthia's PCS advantage was only .32.
I like Amelie's skating, I hope she wins her spot - AGAIN - and has a great time at Worlds, with great skates. I do hope if she goes, someone prevails on her to switch her lutz for a 3sal or 3toe in the SP. She's not going to get high PCS ANYWAY (thank you Skate Canada, for heaps of scorn all season long), so she might as well attempt easier skills that she can do well.
02-11-2012, 07:42 AM
Skate Canada will be criticized mightily whoever they select. To my eye Lacoste has demonstrated that she has the goods to be a top ten skater, and Phaneuf has been top 5 or 6 (I forget) in the Worlds, so it comes down to their competion nerves. I don't know how a skater gets past that, to become a contender - but Joannie Rochette managed it - though it took her a long time.
02-11-2012, 08:12 AM
Yes, but I didn't want to insult Russia and France and Canada all in the same post.
Originally Posted by seniorita
There are different ways to do things. But what I don't like is the idea that there are these king-makers (federation officials) that act like they are the big players in the game of figure skating, rather than the skaters. The skaters get pushed off to the side while the big shots strut and fret.
It would be perfectly fine to use Four Continents and Europeans as qualifying events for Worlds. But then say so. It seems like there are not really any guidelines in place and the federations just make up the rules as they go along, to manipulate the results on an ad hoc basis.
In this situation, it is not fair to Lacoste because if Phaneuf had won nationals the Canadian Federation would have said, well, Phaneuf is the national champion so she goes to worlds. Since it didn't happen that way, now they say, "OK, two out of three?"
I would have no objection if Skate Canada had announced their policy beforehand in a straight-forward way. But this behind-the-scenes winking and nodding makes them look like just another bunch of crooks in a crooked sport.
And rightly so, in my opinion. They have brought criticism down upon themselves.
Originally Posted by veravina
02-11-2012, 08:38 AM
I agree with this. I always feel like Mao is underscored in PCS. Her basic skating skills and quality of movement is so far ahead of most of the field, yet this is barely reflected in the scores. To me, her step sequence in the short seemed twice as difficult as everyone else's--all those exquisite turns and twizzles--yet she makes it look effortless.
Originally Posted by Ilvskating
Here's what I don't get: Patrick Chan seems to get unbelievable PCS no matter how he skates, apparently because he has the best basic skating skills in the field. Same goes for Kostner, to a lesser extent. Yet other skaters like Mao, who to me seem vastly more talented than most of the field, do not get this automatic PCS boost. Would love if someone could explain why not.
02-11-2012, 08:43 AM
Wicked Yankee Girl
How are their relative speeds? Is Mao as fast as Kostner? (Carolina is super fast, but I've never been lucky enough to see Mao live.)
02-11-2012, 09:10 AM
Well, for a long time, she WASN'T the best skating skills skater of the field. When she was with Tarasova, Kim and Rochette both eclipsed her there (Kostner has been ahead of her for quite some time). Having seen her and no one else at 4CC, I'd say her scores were fair.
re: Phaneuf vs LaCoste
What Mathman said. This isn't about giving the ladies a chance to prove themselves in front of an international stage. This is about giving Phaneuf a second chance. And maybe a little bit sucking up to Orser (coach more Canadians!!!). Everyone seems to agree that Phaneuf has more potential to score higher than LaCoste. But the fact is, she's not outscoring LaCoste EVEN when LaCoste is making major errors. So how much, in the end, should potential be worth? I have to admit, should Phaneuf beat LaCoste here and get sent to Worlds, I'm gonna be rooting against her (or more accurately, I'm rooting against Skate Canada's actions and would like to see it backfire).