LADIES LONG PROGRAM Thread | Page 31 | Golden Skate

LADIES LONG PROGRAM Thread

Serious Business

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Thanks for the protocol breakdowns, Mrs. P! I was stunned by how fast Cynthia's spins were, and I am very glad to see them rewarded. Ashley's spiral deserves that +2. It's a great spiral to begin with. It also has genius choreography that lets her reenact one of the macabre scenes from the movie in a creative way. Plus, she gets to demonstrate something close to the hip hop dance style of locking. And she gets to do her evil glare during the entire move (as befitting her character). It is the highlight of the program for me.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
so what happens now ?
will they find another competition for Phanuef and Lacoste to battle it again ?
Phanuef won the LP and the difference is just a fraction of a point and Phanuef's disaster sp
 

herro

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
so what happens now ?
will they find another competition for Phanuef and Lacoste to battle it again ?
Phanuef won the LP and the difference is just a fraction of a point and Phanuef's disaster sp

Didn't they announce that Lacoste is going to Worlds already?
 

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
so what happens now ?
will they find another competition for Phanuef and Lacoste to battle it again ?
Phanuef won the LP and the difference is just a fraction of a point and Phanuef's disaster sp

Well, given their equal degree of suckitude at this competition, Skate Canada could probably just do a Rock, Paper, Scissors sequence for the pick.
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I agree with you BOP. :)

Additionally, I'd like to add that the judges already know what Mao is capable of, and that includes 7 triple jumps with a FAB 3axel. Thus, that is what they are expecting. She set the bar so high early on that there is no place to go but UP now, including her jump repertoire. Anything else will be seen as "dumbing down", and Mao is a warrior, not a coward, I fully expect her to go for the 3axel every time out from here on in, especially with the Russians coming next season, and Sochi 2014 two years away...

I have total faith in Mao, she CAN do it!
 

Mao88

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Uh, Mao skated much better at Nationals and 4CC last season than she did this season.

I'm talking overall - the grand prix and worlds were a disaster. However, yes things did pick up mid-season at Nationals and 4CC, but she couldn't sustain it to Worlds

She absolutely should not drop the 3Axel either. Especially since it is now allowed for women as the solo axel jump in the SP. That jump sets her apart and she has far more mileage on it than any other woman in the World. She should definitely keep working on it, as it is a huge benefit if she gets the rotation.

But, the problem is how often does she fully rotate it? Very rarely. And she has been working on it for many seasons now, and she still hardly ever pulls it off. I think she would be far better off focusing on the rest of her skating - a 3x3 combo, the 3Z, her PCS, etc.

Had she gone into this competition not attempting the 3A in either program and focused on the rest of her skating, she probably would have won. The problem with having the 3A is that she seems to use up all her psychological energy on it and when it doesn't come off, the disappointment seems to leave her deflated in terms of the rest of her program. You therefore end up with mistakes like doubling out on the salchow, etc. Moreover, dropping the 3A would leave with more time to regain a 3x3 combo and to improve her 3L
 
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skateflower

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
. Here's hoping Amelie Lacoste gets two spots back for Canada, so Cynthia can go with her next year. :)^)

Highly unlikely. You have 3 Japanese, 2 Americans, 2 Russians, 1 Italian who are certain to rank ahead of Amelie. Then you have 2-3 other Europeans, and 1 Chinese who have the technical goods and consistency to contend for top 10. It's not going to happen with Amelie's also-dismal consistency.
 

amc987

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 12, 2012
Not necessarily. IMO, Ashley's TR, CH and IN should beat out Alissa's if they both skate their current programs cleanly. Alissa's LP this season is a dud, whereas Black Swan is actually quite decent.

YMMV for PE.

I guess we disagree. I like Ashley's Black Swan program, but I don't think it's wonderful. In fact, I think it's strangely constructed in that her moments of faster/more intense skating don't seem to match the crescendos in the music. It is a vast improvement over some of her other programs (especially the very repetitive Polovetsian Dances routine) but, at least IMO, it strikes me as the program of someone who is using a lot of big, gimmicky arm movements to try to create a connection to the music. To me, even though Ashley does all of that arm work, part of the performance still seems like it's inauthentic/ wanting. Sasha Cohen skated to a very similar selection of music and was far better at integrating the choreography and creating an authentic interpretation as far as I'm concerned.

That doesn't have a lot of bearing on the Alissa vs. Ashley debate. I agree with you on transitions going to Ashley, but I disagree with CH and IN going to Ashley. Alissa's program can be sparse in terms of transitions and the music can be a bit monotonous at times, however, I do think that the arm movements and her connection to the music fit together better than Ashley's do. I also think the structure of the program makes sense. In the event of 2 clean skates I think Czisny and Wagner's CH and IN would be closer than they should be since some judges tend to confuse a lot of choreographical movement for good choreography. Nonetheless, I still think that Alissa should carry the day on PCS.

I am not sure what YMMV means, so I can't really offer an opinion on that, but I believe the PE mark would go to whoever skated a cleaner program on the day. In the event of two clean skates, my guess is that Alissa's higher quality in the aforementioned areas would help her here. I am unabashedly biased, however. Hopefully both ladies skate cleanly in Nice so this won't have to be a hypothetical debate!
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
I'm talking overall - the grand prix and worlds were a disaster. However, yes things did pick up mid-season at Nationals and 4CC, but she couldn't sustain it to Worlds



But, the problem is how often does she fully rotate it? Very rarely. And she has been working it for many seasons now, and she still hardly ever pulls it off. I think she would be far better off focusing on the rest of her skating - a 3x3 combo, the 3Z, her PCS, etc

Contraire, my stats show that Mao rotates her 3axel 80% of the time, including the 2010 Olympics. :cool: :thumbsup: :love:

In fact I've been waiting for her to do 8 triple jumps, as she is the ONLY lady in the world allowed to do so because of the fact that she *does* have a 3axel in her repertoire. :cool: ;)
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I disagree Mao should drop the 3axel. She clearly isnt a judges favorite at this point, and she has virtually no chance of beating a decent Caroline at Worlds (especialy in Europe) without it.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Highly unlikely. You have 3 Japanese, 2 Americans, 2 Russians, 1 Italian who are certain to rank ahead of Amelie. Then you have 2-3 other Europeans, and 1 Chinese who have the technical goods and consistency to contend for top 10. It's not going to happen with Amelie's also-dismal consistency.

They both suck. I hope Joannie comes back next year and neither get to go to Worlds (assuming the obvious of only 1 spot for Canada again).
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I do definitely think Mao should be practicing a 3-3 for the SP. She's giving up points there. For the Long Program, having a Triple-Triple isn't necessary (or even beneficial, unfortunately, with this stupid scoring system of rewarding 2Axel-3Toe more than a real Triple-Triple). This jump layout would be a higher base value than any of the Russian girls:

3Axel
3Flip
3Lutz
--------
2Axel-3Toe
3Flip-2Loop-2Loop
3Loop-2Loop
3Loop
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
I guess we disagree. I like Ashley's Black Swan program, but I don't think it's wonderful. In fact, I think it's strangely constructed in that her moments of faster/more intense skating don't seem to match the crescendos in the music. It is a vast improvement over some of her other programs (especially the very repetitive Polovetsian Dances routine) but, at least IMO, it strikes me as the program of someone who is using a lot of big, gimmicky arm movements to try to create a connection to the music. To me, even though Ashley does all of that arm work, part of the performance still seems like it's inauthentic/ wanting. Sasha Cohen skated to a very similar selection of music and was far better at integrating the choreography and creating an authentic interpretation as far as I'm concerned.

That doesn't have a lot of bearing on the Alissa vs. Ashley debate. I agree with you on transitions going to Ashley, but I disagree with CH and IN going to Ashley. Alissa's program can be sparse in terms of transitions and the music can be a bit monotonous at times, however, I do think that the arm movements and her connection to the music fit together better than Ashley's do. I also think the structure of the program makes sense. In the event of 2 clean skates I think Czisny and Wagner's CH and IN would be closer than they should be since some judges tend to confuse a lot of choreographical movement for good choreography. Nonetheless, I still think that Alissa should carry the day on PCS.

I am not sure what YMMV means, so I can't really offer an opinion on that, but I believe the PE mark would go to whoever skated a cleaner program on the day. In the event of two clean skates, my guess is that Alissa's higher quality in the aforementioned areas would help her here. I am unabashedly biased, however. Hopefully both ladies skate cleanly in Nice so this won't have to be a hypothetical debate!

There isnt a sliver of a hope of Czisny skating a clean long program at Worlds (other than one including alot of doubles jumps) at this point, so your speculation and its premise is pointless. If Wagner skates as well as she did at 4 Continents she will easily beat whatever Czisny conceivably might do at Worlds. Especialy as after this event the USFSA will get firmly behind their U.S Champion and give her their principal backing, which will likely mean higher PCS than Czisny.
 

artsciboy

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Contraire, my stats show that Mao rotates her 3axel 80% of the time, including the 2010 Olympics. :cool: :thumbsup: :love:

In fact I've been waiting for her to do 8 triple jumps, as she is the ONLY lady in the world allowed to do so because of the fact that she *does* have a 3axel in her repertoire. :cool: ;)

Problem is, she doesn't really *have* any of her other triples - she might be trying 3s and 3"z" - but they're not really happening for her.
 

herro

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
There isnt a sliver of a hope of Czisny skating a clean long program at Worlds (other than one including alot of doubles jumps) at this point, so your speculation and its premise is pointless. If Wagner skates as well as she did at 4 Continents she will easily beat whatever Czisny conceivably might do at Worlds. Especialy as after this event the USFSA will get firmly behind their U.S Champion and give her their principal backing, which will likely mean higher PCS than Czisny.

Wow that's a little harsh. I wouldn't say Alissa has no chance of skating clean. She's been remarkably consistent for the most part.
 
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