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Thread: Free Dance Sunday 4:45 PM EST

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    It's not over, and it won't be over even after worlds. I see no reason to tear down either team. We should just be thankful we've got these two to have such a GREAT rivalry and push teh sport.
    My friend from Nashville has been a D&W fan since they were kids in the same way that I’ve been a V&M fan since they were little. Since 2005, we’ve been in awe of one another’s teams but we both think that our kids are the best and in 2005 we both said that we thought we’d be having this discussion for years to come.

    After the Olympics, my friend said “OK, we’ll give you that one”. Now she’s not so generous. I think we both win when both teams skate like they did in the LP at the GPF. And after Scott fell in the SP, I said “OK, you get that one”.

    Worlds is going to be awesome. I really hope both teams bring their best. Then we all win. But after the FD at the GPF I said “I don’t know which one was better. They both looked great!”. Yes, I want my team to win, but I don’t want them to be given a medal, I want them to win it. (I still feel guilt about that bronze in 2009.)

    So for Worlds, I want both teams to skate their best and let the judges work it out.

  2. #212
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    ITA I am not that excited to watch when I feel there's a predetermined winner and everyone else is a predetermined loser. So I hope just the same, that both teams really skate their best at Worlds, and finish the day knowing they did everything they could to win, and let the judges sort it out.

    That will make the most exciting, best competition ever! I will be so sad when either of these teams retires, because I have really enjoyed watching them grow up to both be World Champions and Olympic medallists.

  3. #213
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Boy ,after every competition , by the time I get here , it seems like there's not much left to say..OTOH , the initial gut reactions , and any hard feelings on behalf of favourites usually seem to have mellowed , somewhat, so I guess I won't complain.

    I freely confess to a preference for V/M ..but if anyone wanted to deprive me of the great pleasure of watching Meryl and Charlie , we'd have to come to blows. And since either team might skate better than the other on any given day , I can face their contests with a degree of equanimity.

    I've not felt drawn to FF all season ( I was never drawn to the movie , or the music, particularly ) but I see the detail and difficulty in the program , and really , the polish, nuance and expression that V/M bring to it has to be appreciated... Fledermaus , though , was a simply inspired choice for D/W, and for me , epitomizes the kind of thing I love to see them do. It's a situation that's kept me torn all season.

    But there was no doubt who had the better skate , here. Like Dragonlady , I felt D/W were off their game all the way through.( even the " glorious " lift seemed a bit shaky , esp. on the exit ) When I re-watch these programs, this will not be the one I choose for D/W , though it might be for V/M.

    Of all the guys who had to struggle through skating in this taxing evironment , Scott and Andrew seemed to manage best. I felt bad for Charlie and worse for Alex Shibutani. So though my anticipation was high for this competition, and I'm happy V/M and W/P had good skates , it wasn't satisfying all round.

    I hope we'll see everyone primed and ready for World's , and may the environment be everything they could wish for.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 02-13-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  4. #214
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    I think it bears repeating that D&W only beat V&M twice - at Worlds and at the Grand Prix, so it seemed a little premature of people to bury them. If the judging rewards the skating, not the speed and not the reputation, then Worlds should be really interesting.

    I'm not attached to FF and I'd love to see V&M choose more audience friendly tunes the way D&W do, but that doesn't seem to be their style. V&M love this program and it clearly shows in their skating of it. That should be what matters to the judges.

  5. #215
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    No. They beat them at the GPF twice, in 2009/2010, and again this year in 2011/2012 season, as well as at Worlds in 2011. They also technically beat them in the 2010/2011 season at 4CC's, but that should not be counted either way, since V&M were ahead in the SD, but withdrew in the FD.

    However, your point that V&M should not be buried prematurely is very, very true. On any day, either of the 2 teams could win, I think.

    However, I completely disagree that the fact that V&M love their Funny Face program (or for that matter that D&W love their Der Fledermaus program) should be what matters to the judges.

    IMO

    That should not matter to the judges at all.

    It should not even matter to the judges whether the judges like the music or not.

    What should matter to the judges is how they skate to their music, and how that skating conforms to the rules, both for TES and PCS.

    If it mattered whether the judges liked the music, I doubt very much that D&W would have won with Il Postino.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    No. They beat them at the GPF twice, in 2009/2010, and again this year in 2011/2012 season, as well as at Worlds in 2011. They also technically beat them in the 2010/2011 season at 4CC's, but that should not be counted either way, since V&M were ahead in the SD, but withdrew in the FD.

    However, your point that V&M should not be buried prematurely is very, very true. On any day, either of the 2 teams could win, I think.

    However, I completely disagree that the fact that V&M love their Funny Face program (or for that matter that D&W love their Der Fledermaus program) should be what matters to the judges.

    IMO

    That should not matter to the judges at all.

    It should not even matter to the judges whether the judges like the music or not.

    What should matter to the judges is how they skate to their music, and how that skating conforms to the rules, both for TES and PCS.

    If it mattered whether the judges liked the music, I doubt very much that D&W would have won with Il Postino.
    Doris, I know you stated it as an opinion, but I'm just curious, does everyone really believe that the judges are not swayed by whether they like the music or not?

  7. #217
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I don't think the tech panel is swayed by the music, based on interviews I've listened to with tech specialists. They say that they really don't see the programs, just the elements.

    The audience is swayed by the music, and their reaction has an effect on the skaters though.

  8. #218
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    I was thinking more in terms of PCS.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by conga View Post
    I was thinking more in terms of PCS.
    I would tend to agree since it's been 2 years now that the USFSA has given feedback to Davis/White to change the music to their programs...the il postino change last year and the la strada change this year....I don't think it's just for the audiences, LOL....

  10. #220
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    V&M won this fair & square IMO , D&W seemed so out of control at times they made me gasp, Dance is NOT all about who is the fastest, I think they need to take this into consideration. I wonder how much more time these teams will be spending together in the near future, the icy glares been thrown backstage were so noticeable and off putting , far different than what we would see at other comps over the years, the joking and laughing at boardside has come to an end!

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by cotillion View Post
    V&M won this fair & square IMO , D&W seemed so out of control at times they made me gasp, Dance is NOT all about who is the fastest, I think they need to take this into consideration. I wonder how much more time these teams will be spending together in the near future, the icy glares been thrown backstage were so noticeable and off putting , far different than what we would see at other comps over the years, the joking and laughing at boardside has come to an end!
    They've always been like that backstage though. I think they're just trying to focus themselves.

  12. #222
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, they have always been liked that backstage. Laser focussed.

    I don't understand some people's desire for soap opera in real life for ice dancers.

    And as to speed in ice dance not being important & somehow COP being different from 6.0 in that regard? Ahem Grishuk & Platov vs. Torvill & Dean and vs. Usova & Zhulin in 1994. I could see giving the FD to either U&Z or T&D for totally different reason, but all that G&P had at that point in their careers was great speed (not to mention good music choice).

    And the entire career of Bestiamanova & Bukin, whose main attractions were drama & speed.

  13. #223
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Yes, I want my team to win, but I don’t want them to be given a medal, I want them to win it. (I still feel guilt about that bronze in 2009.)
    Virtue/Moir deserved their medal at 2009 Worlds. The problem at that competition, as usual, was reputation judging. Domnina/Shabalin and Belbin/Agosto were held up, particularly the latter team's horrendous free dance, and Davis/White were held down as a result of being the "second-tier" American team. The results should have been:

    1. Davis/White (clearly the Free Dance winners and perfectly competitive with the other teams between the Compulsory and Original)
    2. Domnina/Shabalin (Compulsory Dance winners, a rather weak Original Dance, 3rd best in the Free Dance)
    3. Virtue/Moir (strong in the Compulsory Dance, a big mistake in the Original Dance, 2nd best in the Free Dance)
    4. Belbin/Agosto (deserved 4th in the Compulsory Dance, 1st in the Original Dance, and a significantly low 4th in the Free Dance)

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    1. Davis/White (clearly the Free Dance winners and perfectly competitive with the other teams between the Compulsory and Original)
    2. Domnina/Shabalin (Compulsory Dance winners, a rather weak Original Dance, 3rd best in the Free Dance)
    3. Virtue/Moir (strong in the Compulsory Dance, a big mistake in the Original Dance, 2nd best in the Free Dance)
    4. Belbin/Agosto (deserved 4th in the Compulsory Dance, 1st in the Original Dance, and a significantly low 4th in the Free Dance)
    I can't recall the specifics of the D&W & B&A's FD's and would have to re-watch them again to make any sort of comment. D&W did not skate good CD's. Their matching lines were not strong so I actually agree with the 4th in that segment. This is the first season where their matching lines come close to V&M's. D&S were very strong CD skaters but I recall their FD as being full of quality errors, none of which reflected in their scoring. My recollection is that I would have had B&A first in the FD. I didn't like their dance and don't think it suited them at all, but they did improve technically under Linichuk.

    The problem is that none of the teams skated all that well, making it easier to sneak D&S in for a lifetime achievement award.

  15. #225
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I can't recall the specifics of the D&W & B&A's FD's and would have to re-watch them again to make any sort of comment. D&W did not skate good CD's. Their matching lines were not strong so I actually agree with the 4th in that segment. This is the first season where their matching lines come close to V&M's. D&S were very strong CD skaters but I recall their FD as being full of quality errors, none of which reflected in their scoring. My recollection is that I would have had B&A first in the FD. I didn't like their dance and don't think it suited them at all, but they did improve technically under Linichuk.

    The problem is that none of the teams skated all that well, making it easier to sneak D&S in for a lifetime achievement award.
    Davis and White

    ^ How do you call this "not skating all that well"? Phenomenal.

    Virtue and Moir

    A wonderful Free Dance. Far more inventive and musical than the Linichuk teams (the best choreography of the competition in my opinion) and more technically accomplished as well, even with it not being their best.

    Domnina and Shabalin

    Too much of this dance has little to do with the music. There are nice highlights and the lifts were great but it's not a full package and there was a lot of room for improvement in the overall execution.

    Belbin and Agosto

    HORRIBLE. AWFUL. CRINGE-WORTHY. One of the worst programs I've ever seen from a top 10 team and they skated it with almost no speed. I'm not even sure they deserved 4th in this segment of the competition. Maybe on the strength of the technical elements and their relatively better polish in comparison to the lower ranked teams but, ughhhhh.

    ---

    As for Davis&White's compulsory dance - no it wasn't at the level of D&S or V&M but they made up ground in the OD.

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