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Thread: Pairs Long Program 2:00 PM EST

  1. #196
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    You may call Sui/Han juniorish, but no Junior or Senior Pairs do a quad, let alone two, but this two "kids". And they are entertaining, getting the audience involved. They can't have these achievements without relating to each other.

    Okay they can do a quad. But that doesn't excuse their PCS for things like skating skills. They are far behind a lot of other teams in this regard. To put a dangerous element above the actual ability to skate sends a very dangerous message.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 02-13-2012 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Remove unsourced rumor

  2. #197
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    Cong is a pretty small guy. There are many teams with extreme size difference who can't do tricks like this team. Give them credit for their abilities instead of negating everything with excuses that don't stand.

  3. #198
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    Sui and Han have perfectly competent skating skills. And as performers, they're among the best in the world for any age. Han pulls off flamenco better than almost any skater I've seen. Anyway, here are shots of the two quadruples: the quad salchow, the quad twist.

  4. #199
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    Watching mini medal ceremony

  5. #200
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    They were all asked, "When did you start skating?"
    Marley started at 8. Brubaker started when he was 5. I could not understand Han and he said that Sui could not speak English. Caydee started roller blading at 2 switched over to fs at 9.

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    Sui and Han have perfectly competent skating skills. And as performers, they're among the best in the world for any age. Han pulls off flamenco better than almost any skater I've seen. Anyway, here are shots of the two quadruples: the quad salchow, the quad twist.
    Right. Perfectly competent equals average. Maybe above average if you're generous. That's what I think of when I hear "Competent"

    So they should get 5-6 for skating skills. 5 = Average, 6 = Above Average. They're being judged as good to very good. If they deserve 7.46 (what they got), Aliona/Robin should be at ten and Patrick Chan at 12.

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    They were all asked, "How did you feel about competing here?"
    Coughlin answered saying that they wanted to do well in front of their home crowd.
    Han said that they were nervous because the crowd was very welcoming. They were anxious and excited.
    Marley said they were nervous but that you have to adapt to how you feel and just enjoy your performance.
    Brubaker said they could feel the response from the crowd and thanked the audience for cheering them on the whole way. (how sweet they seem )

    Why do you continue to skate? Or Why do you skate?
    Brubaker responded saying something along the lines of the dream is representing and competing for the USA at Olympics.
    Sui/Han hope to make their dream of winning gold at the Olympics as well.
    Coughlin likes representing the US. He said that it is a wonderful feeling to see the US flag being raised for something they did together.

    Caydey Denney: How do you feel about having been together for such a short time. Answer they work hard every day.

    Have you dropped your partner?
    Brubaker said "The girls believe we are going to catch them. Our number 1 concern is our partner's safety."
    Han: I could not understand his English but he made a sweet joke.
    Coughlin: Caydee drops me every day.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Right. Perfectly competent equals average. Maybe above average if you're generous. That's what I think of when I hear "Competent"

    So they should get 5-6 for skating skills. 5 = Average, 6 = Above Average. They're being judged as good to very good. If they deserve 7.46 (what they got), Aliona/Robin should be at ten and Patrick Chan at 12.
    This is so stupid. What should all the other pairs get in this competitons? 8? 9? or 4?

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Right. Perfectly competent equals average. Maybe above average if you're generous. That's what I think of when I hear "Competent"

    So they should get 5-6 for skating skills. 5 = Average, 6 = Above Average. They're being judged as good to very good. If they deserve 7.46 (what they got), Aliona/Robin should be at ten and Patrick Chan at 12.
    Take off some mark from SS for average edging skills, give some mark to SS for speed and acceleration. Take some mark off everything else for having junior programs, give some mark to non SS PCS for having music that actually fits, selling the program well, and not having falls.

    Then reduce every team's PCS due to 4CC inflation.

    The relative difference won't change...but it'll "look" better.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Right. Perfectly competent equals average. Maybe above average if you're generous. That's what I think of when I hear "Competent"

    So they should get 5-6 for skating skills. 5 = Average, 6 = Above Average. They're being judged as good to very good. If they deserve 7.46 (what they got), Aliona/Robin should be at ten and Patrick Chan at 12.
    You can do nothing but see them being the athletes people like

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateflower View Post
    This is so stupid. What should all the other pairs get in this competitons? 8? 9? or 4?
    Can you clarify what is stupid?

    The idea that average = five? If so, that's the ISU talking

    The idea that competent equals average? According to the dictionary, one definition of competent is "adequate but not exceptional."

    I'm confused by what's stupid about my post. Can you explain it to me?

    cutesonic, I think you have to recognize that bekalc's perspective is legitimate.

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    The idea that competent equals average? According to the dictionary, one definition of competent is "adequate but not exceptional."

    I'm confused by what's stupid about my post. Can you explain it to me?

    .
    If this is not stupid, I don't know what is. So you think the other pairs in this competiton should get higher pcs than Sui/Hai? Who?

    John COUGHLIN is a truck driver, he doesn't really have much better ss.
    Mary Beth MARLEY / Rockne BRUBAKER? LOL.
    Meagan DUHAMEL / Eric RADFORD? Meagan's ss is not much better either.

    Sui/Han has massive speed, complex choreography and in-between... Tell me which pair's pcs should be higher than theirs in this competition?

    If you're going to hand 5 to them, that's your pejorative but i don't think it's worth much.

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Can you clarify what is stupid?

    The idea that average = five? If so, that's the ISU talking

    The idea that competent equals average? According to the dictionary, one definition of competent is "adequate but not exceptional."

    I'm confused by what's stupid about my post. Can you explain it to me?

    cutesonic, I think you have to recognize that bekalc's perspective is legitimate.
    Well, I disagree with the logic. It's easier to do quads when you're younger. But did anyone successfully do quads when they are juniors? SS? No! So stop using this as an excuse to blame them. They are techinically brilliant. For PCS, everyone can share their opinion, but not hatred or attack. At least the judges appreciate them. If you want to change it, then try to be a judge if you can.

  14. #209
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    Firstly, Sui/Han deserved to win. By including those high base value elements (which are actually undervaluled in pairs skating, I feel), they start with such sky high base value that it would take a poor skate from them AND a great skate from someone else to win. That didn't happen.

    Secondly, that they deserved to win doesn't mean they weren't overscored, or that overscoring doesn't matter.

    Here's the criteria for Skating Skills

    Balance, rhythmic knee action, and precision of foot placement

    Flow and effortless glide: Rhythm, strength, clean strokes, and an efficient use of lean create a steady run to the blade and an ease of transfer of weight resulting in seemingly effortless power and
    acceleration.

    Cleanness and sureness of deep edges, steps, and turns: The skater should demonstrate clean and controlled curves, deep edges, and steps.

    Varied use of power/energy, speed, and acceleration: Variety is the gradation – some of which may be subtle

    Multi directional skating: Includes all direction of skating: forward and backward, clockwise and counterclockwise including rotation in both directions.

    Mastery of one foot skating: No over use of skating on two feet.

    Pair Skating and Ice Dancing: Equal mastery of technique by both partners shown in unison.
    a) Outside the elements, it's all two foot skating. Very much stroke, stroke, stroke

    b) They're quick, but it's not effortless. It's the same thing Murakami struggled with and why her SS aren't as high as they could be even though she's fast, so you don't have that glide, that smoothness, that precision, that high skating skill technicians are able to get.

    c) There's very little in the way of great edge control that again, we see in the top teams (not here, but in general)

    So already, out of the seven criteria, they lack a strong hold with four of them. They did well in the multi-directional skating and showed a variety of speed well, and seemed pretty equal to me. To me, that's around a six. What do you think, skateflower?

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANW View Post
    well I guess that rumor started from you , we know they have been on the scene for a few years now, so what is it? Sui won her Jr title at 10/11 years old. This is so ridiculous it doesn't even deserve a comment.
    Okay, lets be entirely fair.

    There was controversy about the ages last season when, on a Chinese website ran by the federation, the ages of about eight teams/singles slaters was posted. The ages posted revealed that none would've been eligible to compete in the events they did, and the way the ages were done both up and down suggested it was deliberate. When the ISU asked the Chinese federation about it, they said it was a transcribing error and in fact the correct ages were all in line with ISU rules. The ISU had no grounds to investigate further, but given that we've seen these reveals before prove to be true, one tends to give it a little more credibility than they would otherwise.

    But as it was never proven, it's not fair of bekalc to use it as a reason to bring them down, regardless of belief.

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