Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 LastLast
Results 256 to 270 of 276

Thread: Pairs Long Program 2:00 PM EST

  1. #256
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    7,378
    ^
    didn't S/H mention they will compete both at junior and seniors ?
    endurance would not be an issue here but they could focus on Sr. Worlds, Zhnags are injured and P/T are getting old
    they are the new blood for the chinese pairs team.

    I may be selfish, but they have won it twice in jr. worlds
    but I'd rather look forward to seeing a new pairs gold winners. lol

  2. #257
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Kenai, AK
    Posts
    18,666
    Hey gang, if you have issues with a poster - don't drag a thread down. Either put them on ignore, or take the issues to PM. Fights from other boards are also not welcome here. So let's just focus on the real topic and not who can come up with the best insult.

  3. #258
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,576
    Under current age rules, Sui / Han will be eligible to compete at JW for two additional seasons and they can do both Senior and Junior Worlds each year through 2014.

  4. #259
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    347
    Finally getting to watching the TV coverage of the pairs at 4CC. For the Canadians, I feel that Skate Canada should have used this competition to decide who to actually send to Worlds. Sorry, but Dube/Wolfe are still not ready for prime time. Yes, she is the former Canadian champion with a different partner. Yes, she is the supposed veteran. But that is precisely why it is so wrong for Skate Canada to send them to Worlds. Give them until next year. It's not the best thing for them, never mind for the potential spots for next year's worlds. If they go to worlds and do not place well, they will set a precedent, and it will be much harder for them next year. Add the Europeans and Russians to the mix, and they will be lucky to even crack the top 10. Poor Wolf is just out of Junior. Can we please let these 2 develop properly? There is good potential if they have the space and a little more time to gel as a team and get the tricks down. None of the Canadian skaters did particularly well here. All things considered, if the goal is to earn 3 spots to worlds next year, then Skate Canada should send D/R and MT/M. That is our best chance for 3 spots next year. MT/M had a horrendous skate at Nationals, but they have the highest international ranking with or next to D/R, and just missed the GPF. Once again, Skate Canada is shooting itself in the foot. I guess it is kind of hard to change now, but this is just so wrong after watching this event. If they could use this event as the decider for the ladies, I don't see why they couldn't do the same for the pairs, out of the bubble of Nationals.

  5. #260
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    7,576
    I agree. Dube/Wolfe were something of a disaster at 4CC. Skate Canada should have sent MT/M to 4CC instead of Lawrence/Sweigers and declared a skate-off between D/W and MT/M as they did with the ladies.

  6. #261
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    383
    Han said they will go to both Sr and Jr worlds if they are in fact asked to go to Sr worlds by the Chinese fed. No team as of yet has been named. I would send the Zhangs to srs and S/H to jrs.

  7. #262
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    Finally getting to watching the TV coverage of the pairs at 4CC. For the Canadians, I feel that Skate Canada should have used this competition to decide who to actually send to Worlds. Sorry, but Dube/Wolfe are still not ready for prime time. Yes, she is the former Canadian champion with a different partner. Yes, she is the supposed veteran. But that is precisely why it is so wrong for Skate Canada to send them to Worlds. Give them until next year. It's not the best thing for them, never mind for the potential spots for next year's worlds. If they go to worlds and do not place well, they will set a precedent, and it will be much harder for them next year. Add the Europeans and Russians to the mix, and they will be lucky to even crack the top 10. Poor Wolf is just out of Junior. Can we please let these 2 develop properly? There is good potential if they have the space and a little more time to gel as a team and get the tricks down. None of the Canadian skaters did particularly well here. All things considered, if the goal is to earn 3 spots to worlds next year, then Skate Canada should send D/R and MT/M. That is our best chance for 3 spots next year. MT/M had a horrendous skate at Nationals, but they have the highest international ranking with or next to D/R, and just missed the GPF. Once again, Skate Canada is shooting itself in the foot. I guess it is kind of hard to change now, but this is just so wrong after watching this event. If they could use this event as the decider for the ladies, I don't see why they couldn't do the same for the pairs, out of the bubble of Nationals.
    Totally agree and the judging in pairs at 4CCs was lenient. If Canada does not obtain 3 pair spots next year for worlds it will be a huge missed opportunity. This is not to put down Dube/Wolfe but really their programs are not competitive with the top 8-10 in the world at this stage. Total miscalculation on Skate Canada's part.

  8. #263
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    16,044
    Blades, I can appreciate what you're saying about death spirals--but I would rather not put the judges against the skaters and the ISU tech committee. What should happen is that fans, coaches, and skaters should all petition the ISU to get rid of these crap death spirals.

    Also, I would like you to explain to me how to see a full rotation of prerotation in the throw and the twist, because clearly I am not looking at it in the right way--I'm not seeing it.

  9. #264
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,609
    Eh, if Mt/M and D/R skate how they have been this season, I doubt we'd get the third slot anyway. Three Russian teams + the Germans + 2 Chinese teams make that difficult.

  10. #265
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    I agree. Dube/Wolfe were something of a disaster at 4CC. Skate Canada should have sent MT/M to 4CC instead of Lawrence/Sweigers and declared a skate-off between D/W and MT/M as they did with the ladies.
    Yeah, it's dumb to leave MT/M at home. They've been doing very well at the GP events.

  11. #266
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hollywood, CA
    Posts
    4,017
    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Blades, I can appreciate what you're saying about death spirals--but I would rather not put the judges against the skaters and the ISU tech committee. What should happen is that fans, coaches, and skaters should all petition the ISU to get rid of these crap death spirals.
    I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Judges are supposed to grade the quality of an element on an absolute scale. The fact that these death spirals have poor positions and lose speed is something they should be marking off for. Skaters should have to choose which level element they want to put in the program by weighing how much GOE than can get (and of course how well it fits the choreography and music). If you score more points on a Level 3 element because you execute it better than a Level 4, then you should probably be doing that move instead. If GOE is just given out freely and without a critical eye, though, then everyone just does the max level element regardless of how well they can execute it because they know the judges will give them +GOE (or at least not give -GOE) anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Also, I would like you to explain to me how to see a full rotation of prerotation in the throw and the twist, because clearly I am not looking at it in the right way--I'm not seeing it.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOom45KXw70&t=6m35s

    It appears to me that his hand doesn't leave her until she is facing him in the air on that Quad Salchow. He's picking her up and spinning her into the rotation.

    On the Quad twist he releases her 3/4 of a rotation into it and then starts to catch her when 1/4 rotation is still left, so that too is a full turn of rotation which isn't completed in the air.

    It's perfectly acceptable (and necessary in the majority of cases) for every jump, throw, and twist in skating to have a half turn of rotation not completed in the air during the takeoff. That's simply natural. When it goes beyond that, though, it becomes cheating. Now we must remember that 1/4 turn leeway is also allowed. A quad jump or throw can have 1/2 turn of setup rotation not done in the air and 1/4 turn of final rotation not completed fully in the air and still be considered complete. Thus, the bare minimum amount of air rotation for a Quad is 3.25 turns. For a Triple it is 2.25 turns. For a double it is 1.25 turns. If a jump or throw or twist is pre-rotated an extra 1/4 rotation on the takeoff past that acceptable 1/2 turn amount, then it should be understood that the jump/throw needs to be landed 100% backwards in order to be seen as complete. The 1/4 turn leeway that is allowed for the landing has already been used on the takeoff.

    Because Sui/Han only completed these quads with 3 turns of rotation done fully in the air (rather than the minimum 3.25), they should be seen as underrotated. The ISU has not yet created a scale of values for underrotated throws and twists as they have for jumps, though. It's something that needs to be looked into. I do agree with ImaginaryPogue, however, that the base values for Quad throws and twists are undervalued in the CoP right now. So in that sense cheating these elements isn't as big of a deal to me because they aren't worth enough to begin with. The amount they are currently worth is closer to what the underrotated versions should be worth. Fully-rotated Quad throws and twists should be worth a couple points more than they currently are.

  12. #267
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    311
    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    . I will not accept any less.
    Here's your theme song if I may sum it up:

    1. Yu Na Kim is Goddness, Mao is inferior.
    2. Russians are Gods and Goddesses. Tuktamysheva will not grow because her parents are short( really? have you taken their DNA samples?).
    3. Chinese skaters are inferior.
    Last edited by skateflower; 02-14-2012 at 09:07 PM.

  13. #268
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,205
    Quote Originally Posted by skateflower View Post
    Here's your theme song if I may sum it up:

    1. Yu Na Kim is Goddness, Mao is inferior.
    2. Russians are Gods and Goddesses. Tuktamysheva will not grow because her parents are short( really? have you taken their DNA samples?).
    3. Chinese skaters are inferior.
    Interesting, how did Kim, Asada, Tuktamysheva, Russian skaters in general, and Chinese skaters in general get into this thread? Remember that it's called pairs long program? So a person who particularly prefers Kim to Asada, thinks Russian pair skaters are good, and dislike Sui/Han have this particular theme song or superiority/inferiority?

  14. #269
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Staring at the ocean and smiling.
    Posts
    16,044
    BoP, Thanks for the explanation. I was looking at when her feet left the ice, not when Han's hands left her body.

    BTW, the double footing is particularly clear in the slo mo.

    It's true that quad throws, twists, and triple axel throws are undervalued in pairs COP, IMO.

  15. #270
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,086
    Quote Originally Posted by skateflower View Post
    Here's your theme song if I may sum it up:

    1. Yu Na Kim is Goddness, Mao is inferior.
    2. Russians are Gods and Goddesses. Tuktamysheva will not grow because her parents are short( really? have you taken their DNA samples?).
    3. Chinese skaters are inferior.
    I"m not even sure how I can respond but by saying Sui/Han doesn't = every single Chinese skater. A couple of years ago Chen Lu was my avatar. And while I prefer the Russian school of pairs skating, I actually did prefer S/Z to T/M. One skater doesn't equal an entire nationality. There are skaters of every nationality, I like and don't like.
    Last edited by bekalc; 02-14-2012 at 10:22 PM.

Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ... 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •