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Thread: Can Takahashi Close The Gap On Patrick Chan?

  1. #1
    Custom Title Mao88's Avatar
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    Can Takahashi Close The Gap On Patrick Chan?

    Interesting new article on how Dai will be endeavouring to close the gap on Patrick Chan

    Article reads:-

    Daisuke Takahashi said Saturday he is ready to accept the harsh reality that he has a lot of ground to forge. "I have to perfect my quadruple jump," said Takahashi, who finished nearly 30 points behind Canadian Chan in the men's program Friday night and failed in his bid to defend his title....Aside from polishing his techniques on big jumps like the quad, Takahashi also believes he will have to continue building his strength...He is even considering training in France during the offseason...."There was a big gap between me and Patrick, which gives me motivation to work harder," Takahashi told reporters at a press conference. "It might be impossible to do it this season, but I want to see how much I can close the gap on him. I need to be able to really compete with him over the next two years (in time for the Sochi Winter Olympics)," he said.

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    No. Not unless there happens to be a competition when Takahashi actually lands a quad and skates perfectly while Chan skates terribly (and by terribly, I mean REALLY terribly--like 4 falls and a Zayak).

  3. #3
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    ^ Oh evangeline, please give me sth to dream about

    I believe Chan can be reached in Sp (like by Fernandez) but in Lp I dont think so, he has two quads and when he skates clean his Lp scores are huge. Kozuka was close at Worlds 2011, I dont think anyone else has been marked above 180 in Lp.

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    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Without a reliable quad in his SP I don't think so. Dai needs to score big in his SP to have any chance of possibly catching up with Patrick and then only if Patrick makes more than a few mistakes in his LP, but if Patrick is clean, probably not. Patrick right now reminds me of Yuna, untouchable.

    Of course I would love to be proved wrong. It is no secret that Dai is my favorite skater.

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    Technically it will be hard. Takahashi's problems are well known. In PCS Chan is the model for best of everything in PCS. Even in Skate Canada SP 2011 he won PCS. PCS is largely an immovable object where everyone is almost always below Chan.

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    While Dai works on closing the gap with Patrick, others are working on closing the gap with him and Patrick is working on widening the gap.

    Patrick is right that Dai does not necessarily need 2 quads in his LP, but having one in each program seems to be the a must. Kozuka was able to best Patrick in TES at last Worlds with one good quad and a perfect skate when Patrick didn't do his best but Dai has the PCS in the same league as Patrick so it's doable with one quad and a perfect skate from him. So, that brings up the other important factor, which Kozuka also failed at, which is to do two perfectly clean programs at one competition, something Dai hasn't done in a long time. His 2010 Worlds winning LP had a 2 footed and fallen quad, which won't do this year. His best showing at NHK included an LP with a quad fall and 3 URs while his seanson's best LP at GPF included a flawed quad and, worse, came after a terrible SP, which he can't compensate enough when competing against Patrick.

    So I think with Dai's current technical ability, yes he could win if 1) he includes one quad in each program, 2) he performs both programs perfectly clean, and 3) Patrick does not perform both his programs perfectly clean. Quite a few conditions but not out of the realm of possibility on slippery ice.

    If Patrick brings his best as at 2010 Canadian Nationals, or even 2011 Nationals, it's probably impossible for anybody to overtake him.

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    Yes! No. I don't know! But, oh what a prospect for us fans who might get to witness all of this and more! (guys, please don't hurt yourselves).

    I think Dai can come closer to Chan's current base value; but I can't see how he can overcome it this year at least - I mean even with a clean quad in each program (to Chan's 3), and three 3 axels to Chan's two it isn't really surpassing (and yes, I know there are other elements). And to come close to this bv, Dai would have to skate two clean programs - somehow, I think he might have it in him, but, his track record this year points more to a few errors here and there.

    I truly adore both of Dai's programs....and really hope to seem him skate all out at Worlds. Should he manage this without injury, I will be a happy fan!!!

    ETA I meant to add that if Dai skates clean and his base value comes close to chan with other jumps and levels, I still don't have a sense how, say, a clean Dai and a clean Chan end up on PCS, but I think Chan wins three of them...

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    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    Yes! No. I don't know! But, oh what a prospect for us fans who might get to witness all of this and more! (guys, please don't hurt yourselves).

    I think Dai can come closer to Chan's current base value; but I can't see how he can overcome it this year at least - I mean even with a clean quad in each program (to Chan's 3), and three 3 axels to Chan's two it isn't really surpassing (and yes, I know there are other elements). And to come close to this bv, Dai would have to skate two clean programs - somehow, I think he might have it in him, but, his track record this year points more to a few errors here and there.

    I truly adore both of Dai's programs....and really hope to seem him skate all out at Worlds. Should he manage this without injury, I will be a happy fan!!!

    ETA I meant to add that if Dai skates clean and his base value comes close to chan with other jumps and levels, I still don't have a sense how, say, a clean Dai and a clean Chan end up on PCS, but I think Chan wins three of them...
    I don't know whether Dai can overtake Chan. I almost don't mind if he doesn't. Daisuke is still amazing, and he's marvelous to behold in a way that no one else is, including Patrick. It's great that he's trying to improve his level of skating to overtake Patrick, and I can't wait to see the kind of skating that this will lead to from both men. But whether Daisuke comes in first or second in terms of points, the skating part of my heart belongs to him.

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    ^ I totally agree with you. He is amazing, and these programs, are for me , a double-shot of greatness.

    And, I just saw his 4CC's ex....it was so lovely. Do you know who choreographed it....It felt like a Lambiel type program and it just made my heart stop and pitter-patter all at once.

  10. #10
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    Dai has memorable programs. He has a masterpeice in Blues for Klook LP. When he is on, he skates like no one else. But as I said in other thread, Patrick cannot be caught. He might do same jumps, but PChan has that speedy, amazing footwork, and they love him. Like mao couldn't get close with 3 count them 3 triple axels like a man does, she was never going to win with a strong Yuna. I don't see anyone but Patrick taking the golds unless he literally falls 3 or more times. The favoritism and all the points he wracks up with the high speed footwork is what they want to see. I personally say, less is more already. No move is held out, his style is not yet matured. By Sochi I guess he will be 60 points ahead. Fairly or unfairly.

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    ^ I guess I am one of the 'they' or 'them' - I love Chan too. And Dai, and Abbot...and Plushy and even in a very different way, Joubert...and gosh, Rippon is blowing my mind this year with a new found calm and confidence and oh so many more. My only point being that I feel so happy that there are so many skaters and so many programs that grab me and make me want to watch skating.

    Whether the system is ok as is being debated right, left, and center...and whether it favors certain kinds of skaters seems to be something that some knowledgeable have indicated (not in the sense, necessarily, of intentional bias, rather in the sense that the current criteria 'fits' some skaters better than others), but that it might be - the system - unfairly applied is something I feel somewhat skeptical about. But, just imho.

  12. #12
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emma View Post
    ^ I totally agree with you. He is amazing, and these programs, are for me , a double-shot of greatness.

    And, I just saw his 4CC's ex....it was so lovely. Do you know who choreographed it....It felt like a Lambiel type program and it just made my heart stop and pitter-patter all at once.
    The Crisis by Ennio Morriconi, Choreographed by Kenji Miyamoto who is a retired Japanese ice dancer. Beautiful program!
    Last edited by demarinis5; 02-13-2012 at 11:11 PM.

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    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    The only thing Takahashi needs is more consistency on the jumps. He can do it too; let's not forget his epic display of jumping at 2008 Four Continents and 2008 Nationals. His 2006 NHK and 2007 Nationals performances were up there as well and 2007 Worlds was close.

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    As I've said before, I think if Patrick skated according to his plan and skated clean, no one would surpass him, not Takahashi, not Abbott, not Kozuka, not anyone. However, if Patrick skated not clean, he'd leave the door open for any top skaters who skated clean and up to the bar. The skaters who could challenge an unclean Patrick are Takahashi, Abbott, Kozuka, Hanyu, Fernandez, and Song. Among these skaters, Takahashi and Abbott might have the best chance for it this year considering their this year's showing so far. Can Takahashi close the gap on Patrick? Of course! But whether or not he could overtake him is another question.

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    Hmmmm..... I'd like to see him try. This men's field has the most interesting balance between breadth and depth of any discipline, so to see it so thoroughly dominated by one man is not all that thrilling, despite my love of Patrick Chan. I'd like to see Dai trying to improve his spins and jumps. Conversely, I'm glad Chan isn't resting on his laurels, pushing his already legendary skating skills to new heights this season and pushing his performance and expression past his previous bests.

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