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Thread: Can Takahashi Close The Gap On Patrick Chan?

  1. #46
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    I really and truly am not a Patrick-Hater. But maybe there is a reason why the concept of Chanflation exists:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq2UqUjFgPM

  2. #47
    Simply the best. l'etoile's Avatar
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    OMG What is this? Am I supposed to take this seriously? Mao's one clearly landing on 1/4 borderline with two-foot which made tech panel call underrotation, and Chan landing backwards, I'd say no short of revolution, but if to be strict, it's a barely rotated but "rotated" jump.
    Last edited by l'etoile; 02-16-2012 at 07:56 AM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by demarinis5 View Post
    Sorry to go off topic but since Michelle has been brought up in this thread I have to respond.

    Sorry skateluvr I have to disagree with you about Michelle.

    A song For You ( a non jump Michelle)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4MbfKSX10I
    Thanks for putting that up. I remember that Campbell's. Watching it at the time made me realize that Michelle's skills weren't going to come back, so it was especially sad, but it also showed that even without those skills, she was still magical on the ice. I'm glad we had her as long as we did. I hope we have Daisuke and Patrick for an equally long time.

  4. #49
    Custom Title hurrah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    OMG What is this? Am I supposed to take this seriously? Mao's one clearly landing on 1/4 borderline with two-foot which made tech panel call underrotation, and Chan landing backwards, I'd say no short of revolution, but if to be strict, it's a barely rotated but "rotated" jump.
    That's what YOU see. I see that both did borderline triple-axel and Mao two-footed her's while Chan fell on his.

    So you know what that disparity (between what you see and what I see) proves? It means that even counting no. of revolution is SUBJECTIVE. Maybe ISU should admit it. Figure skating can't be a sport if there can be no objective method of determining what's what.

  5. #50
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    very nice-late in her career-never saw it before- I do miss the triples. But this is like most every Kwan skate-joyous, smiling, loving the applause, loving just to skate. MK has no bad skates that I can find. Is this superior artistically? No, and I love MK because of several comp. skates which were wonderful. Does she compare to Sasha with no jumps? Bobek? Katia? They would win. Just being honest though I enjoyed the program. Was this skated after she left Torino? Did MK do Champions on Ice in 2006? For me her last great skating was Tosca 2004. Her conviction and the footwork and utter confidence was breathtaking. I wish I had seen Lyra and Tosca in person. Thrilling!
    IMO yes. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion mine just happens to be different. Michelle skated this program in her last tour with COI.
    Last edited by demarinis5; 02-16-2012 at 08:20 AM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    That's what YOU see. I see that both did borderline triple-axel and Mao two-footed her's while Chan fell on his.

    So you know what that disparity (between what you see and what I see) proves? It means that even counting no. of revolution is SUBJECTIVE. Maybe ISU should admit it. Figure skating can't be a sport if there can be no objective method of determining what's what.

    Even Mao said in an interview she thought she had rotated 3A in the FP, so she got surprised it had got called UR. But it is Mao, what's done is done. Her eyes are already looking at WC.

  7. #52
    Simply the best. l'etoile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    That's what YOU see. I see that both did borderline triple-axel and Mao two-footed her's while Chan fell on his.

    So you know what that disparity (between what you see and what I see) proves? It means that even counting no. of revolution is SUBJECTIVE. Maybe ISU should admit it. Figure skating can't be a sport if there can be no objective method of determining what's what.
    Only solution to that matter is for ISU to machinize the system and make clear the grey area for people. I give you that people see different angles, things but THAT CLIP is talking about jumps judged by different set of panel of judges at different event and even the different disciplines. If we're giving Mao credit for her 3A in the clip, who's to say that jump would've been downgraded(underrotated) by the same tech panel who judged Chan's? She could've got a pass on the jump.
    Last edited by l'etoile; 02-16-2012 at 08:43 AM. Reason: to add quotation

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Not all fans 'beat up' their favourites' opponents. I don't (K, I only speak for myself). When MK lost the gold and Kurt didn't win in the Olympics, I was very very disappointed for them and my heart sank. But it didn't make me rant and spit venom on the other figure skaters.
    Did Lipinski, Urmanov, Petrenko, and Hughes have 6 fall margins over the field and be guaranteed to win every event no matter how poorly they skated. Also how on earth could you be bitter towards another skater Kurt wasnt enabled to win the Olympics for total junk performances he fell all over the place (although if you are a Chan fan perhaps it is understandable you would think victories are still possible even in this case). Your theories are cute, but I dont even have a favorite in the mens event currently. Chan's out of control scoring situation is something only the blind would deny, I used to think it was sad but now I just find it amusing. No need to worry about the good of the sport anymore as for the moment it is a sinking ship in North America anyway, and has been for 10 years now.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    I really and truly am not a Patrick-Hater. But maybe there is a reason why the concept of Chanflation exists:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq2UqUjFgPM
    I don't know if Mao's 3A was under-rotated but it was two-footed.

  10. #55
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Usually a heavy two foot landing is called at least "<" because the freefoot typically hits at the same time as the skating foot and it is more than 90 degrees under rotated.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurrah View Post
    That's what YOU see. I see that both did borderline triple-axel and Mao two-footed her's while Chan fell on his.

    So you know what that disparity (between what you see and what I see) proves? It means that even counting no. of revolution is SUBJECTIVE. Maybe ISU should admit it. Figure skating can't be a sport if there can be no objective method of determining what's what.

    That`s funny about you talking about what others see. In no instance do I see Patrick as you clearly state. I see a hand down, yes. Fall, no.

  12. #57
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Lots of hot air. Chan's 3Axel was clearly past the 1/4 turn mark. Mao's 3Axel was slightly short of the 1/4 turn mark.

  13. #58
    Custom Title skateluvr's Avatar
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    But BoP, when people need slo mo to see this and constant explanation from skaters, you know it is way too complicated to attract many fans. It is indeed the scoring system that could be ouverhauled and must be simplified, as that is one reason, maybe not the biggest, for the decline in TV viewership. Yes, this is just an elite sport in North America, now. This artistic sport is valued more in Russia and Asia for many reasons. The TV programming, is awful here, and cable is worse. We are not sseeing any 'Great performances" outside of PBS which ironically is viewer supported, and the last bastion of taste and intelligence on can find on TV in America. The PChan fan fest thread says it takes 250,000 to get all the everything Pat needs to be a World champion and stay there. This is rediculous. It has become a sport of rich kids, and the smaller the better.

    Without a female star, there really is very interest in skating, and it is turning into a very small club of top skaters, coaches, judges, fans who can afford to travel to big championships. We are a country ready to destroy programs that are keeping sick/elderly alive. That I know a lot about. Russia, China seem to have the money now to have the state underwrite the sport and olympic medals mean more to them than us, to the point of cheating. The sport has moved largely to Asia, and Asian skaters have the advantage size wise no matter whom they skate for. So USA can feel proud of ice dance and that appears to be it.

    Evan did not get much ride out of that gold medal with endorsements, and I don't get why. He is very marketable and America watches DWTS. I find it sad a nice kid can't recoup some of his parents money. Everyone knows Johnny Weir though, and he is doing quite well after years of shameless at times self promotion.

    It is much sadder to see empty factories and my city decay because our very life- manufacturing jobs for the middle class-have been sold out from under us by our millionaire congress.

    While it is sad we cannot see these great competitions on NBC, we have seen TV degenerate into dumbed down reality trivia and tabloid journalism. As long as the internet remains free and anonymous, we can still show good figure skating, and other dying art forms, to the masses. If through dumb luck we get a couple great rivals al la Kwan? Lipinski or Huhes, or Cohen, we will certainly get some TV coverage back, but not until we have great ladies again who are consistent winners. We can dream. So much for my frustrated rant about the decline of this country and the reverence for good music, good art, good programming, libraries with recent books, everything that made this country a great democracy is lost.

    If every FS fan wrote to NBC or ESPN and begged for coverage like 10 years ago, it would not matter, because our fan base has moved to Asia with the rise of Yuna, Mao, Dai, Shizuka, HAnyu, Nan Song.

    And the best in North America are children of Asian emigies. I don't think we will ever see another Debi Thomas, or Rudi Galindo or even (for better or worse) a Tonya Harding who honed her skills when young at a mall rink. Opportunity shrinks across every state. It is frightening, not just sad to see what North America has allowed.
    Last edited by skateluvr; 02-21-2012 at 12:56 AM.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    The PChan fan fest thread says it takes 250,000 to get all the everything Pat needs to be a World champion and stay there. This is rediculous. It has become a sport of rich kids, and the smaller the better.
    It was a joke from someone about the possibility of Patrick's supporters raising more then he needs now that they are rallying around him and challenging all five WCBAC charters to raise funds for him. It's an impossible amount considering the capacity of smaller charters.

  15. #60
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    I hear you, skateluvr!

    I was very sad that Evan didn't get any mileage out of his OGM. He seems like a decent guy.

    Like you, I don't understand why someone can't make the time to feature skating on TV a bit more. They have so much wrestling--every day, it seems. Can't they spare two hours a week for skating?

    As far as the factories, that is a complete tragedy. What shortsighted impulse led corporate leaders to send their facilities offshore, when the logical assumption would be that American workers could no longer afford to buy their products? Idiocy. Henry Ford understood that if he priced his cars to sell to assembly line workers and people like that, he would be successful beyond the dreams of avarice. Modern corporations have settled merely for the dreams of avarice, I guess. But there are a few good signs on the horizon. I read that some factories are reviving. Perhaps more of this will happen.

    Back to skating: if Asians because of their size and build have an advantage in singles skating (or at least ladies' singles), then the U.S. and Canada still have a built-in advantage, because we are both countries of immigrants. Americans and Canadians come from everywhere, including just about every country in Asia. But we've seen that good skaters and even good jumpers can have other body types, as Irina Slutskaya certainly proves. So we don't need to take the narrow view, and indeed we shouldn't. As you say, we can still dream of American skating glory. Don't give up now!

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