Can Takahashi Close The Gap On Patrick Chan?
- Thread starter Mao88
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1. He did. He won the GPF with two falls: one in SP, where he "managed" to get -3 only from 4 judges, and the second one in LP. Two falls count as multiple falls. Because the definition of "multiple" is "more than one", and you know that. So it's quite obvious whose example is faulty. The problem with Chan Patrol is they don't know how to lose. 2. We all graduated from schools. No need to talk to people like they are some blind idiots who don't know how to count. BV isn't supposed to mean that much, as we have with Chan, when a skater zhambonis the ice on the permanent basis. The difference between Chan's TES and Dai's was only 0.54. Dai had a flawed 4T? He did and that is all. None of the rest of his elements got negative GOE, including his amazing 3A-3T that brought him over 15 points alone. While Chan had a flawed 4T, and again ended up with -1 from two judges. Then he had a flawed combo. After that he had a crappy landing on his second combo with a short exit from 3S with shaky balance ready to lose, and yet somehow managed to get 0.60 GOE for that. Then he, as a kind of tradition, zamboni'ed the ice on 3L, and before that he almost lost his balance on his presious transitions and still get the highest score for them in PCS: 0.25 over Dai. With all his mistakes he again "managed" to get the highest PCS of the night, including for performance and presentation: 1.50 over Dai. So, yes, we have it here: a worse Chan won over better Takahashi. You may deny it as long as you wish, with all your passion and mania. The problem is you are just an uber behind the keyboard. Nothing wrong with that. We almost all are. The point is figure skating lives on cash, like many things in this world. Most of people who pay for tickets never heard about online forums or never even bother to register on them. They pay, they come, they see what they see and they don't understand what is going on. Next time they buy tickets for another sport event where rules are clearer for them. Nobody will ever be able to count how much cash flow fs lost because a casaul audience member simply lost the interest, knowing that a zamboni winner is already known. Yes, they want to watch who they like. I am sure you know who they like. But still I'll give you the link to the youtube channel of NikaQuest from the Russian Samara city, the one who made an amazing job by uploading videos almost live. Well, it's more than clear that your idol with over 26 thousands views has a long way to catch up that "non perfect and flawed" dude with his over 83 thousand views. Enjoy the watching.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNQnevifJKQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc97QA3b-5E
That's true and I agree wth you completely. He is the best example of what is wrong with this judging system. You saw empty seats at 4CC I am sure. Thanks that you brought SLC here. That is when it all started. The begining of evil, when the credibility of the sport got damaged and it seems like they (ISU) are not doing their job well enough to return fs its popularity and trust. We'll see. I hope for the best like so many.
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- Jan 23, 2012
It's not a good idea to use that channel as some measurement tool. The Japanese Broadcasting companies (NHK Sports, Fuji, etc) are taking down or geo-blocking skating videos on youtube and Japan's own Nico-Nico Video. A lot of Japanese skating fans on message boards now post links to videos with non-Japanese commentary, such as NikaQuest, in order to sidestep it. Combine this with Japan's high speed internet and the views add up. You can actually use Youtube's video statistics and see that activity is usually high in Japan for any skater regardless of their nationality.
That's true and I agree wth you completely. He is the best example of what is wrong with this judging system. You saw empty seats at 4CC I am sure. Thanks that you brought SLC here. That is when it all started. The begining of evil, when the credibility of the sport got damaged and it seems like they (ISU) are not doing their job well enough to return fs its popularity and trust. We'll see. I hope for the best like so many.
The biggest reason that is because figure skating isn't as popular in America is because there isn't an American skater, especially female, that is performing consistently at an international level. Looking back, the most consistent skater in recent memory was Yu-na Kim and we can see that she had a massive following. When she skated at the Cup of China in 2008, I believe that was the highest attendance ever recorded for them. There were several factors contributing to this. She had a large gathering due to her consistent performances, she was exposed to many people due to close media scrutiny, and Korean minority groups in China were willing to travel long distances in order to see her skate. The avalanche of stuffed animals at the end of her skate said it all.
For that matter, the Japanese and Korean skating fans I've talked enjoy CoP scoring system. They're quite knowledgeable about it and can recite base values off the top of their heads. Or, they might just hate 6.0 since they consider that system to be rigged and prejudiced against their countries. That the fall of the 6.0 has corresponded with the rise of Asia in the Mens, Ladies, and Pairs discipline. I think it is because Asian skaters have had an easier time adapting to the new rules. However, a lot of Asian fans believe the increased transparency has prevented any overt rigging. I find it really interesting that much of the opinions I've heard on the current scoring system are regional. I know a number of Europeans that hate it what it has done to the sport and many Asian fans like how the new changes have given their skaters a fighting chance.
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- Jan 15, 2012
1. want to watch who they like. I am sure you know who they like. But still I'll give you the link to the youtube channel of NikaQuest from the Russian Samara city, the one who made an amazing job by uploading videos almost live. Well, it's more than clear that your idol with over 26 thousands views has a long way to catch up that "non perfect and flawed" dude with his over 83 thousand views. Enjoy the watching.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNQnevifJKQ
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc97QA3b-5E
That's true and I agree wth you completely. He is the best example of what is wrong with this judging system. You saw empty seats at 4CC I am sure. Thanks that you brought SLC here. That is when it all started. The begining of evil, when the credibility of the sport got damaged and it seems like they (ISU) are not doing their job well enough to return fs its popularity and trust. We'll see. I hope for the best like so many.
It is obvious you despised Chan, Lets Talk. And if you agree to the viciousness and uncalled for comments on you-tube such as Nikaquest, it reflects poorly on you. I have read them and it pissed me off totally. (They are quite similar to the attacks I read on Evan's you-tube and I won't be surprised if the people originate from the same group). The attacks are very personal and ugly more like a hate-blog. And of course, the people who attacked Chan wants their own favourites to win and his rising dominance is seen as a source of frustuation and block to their favourites. It is sad to know that some figure skating fans belong to that 'hooliganism' and 'hate' culture with little sense of civility and reasoned thinking.
What has the no. of viewers on you-tube got to do with fans who will attend a figure skating competition? I can click a thousand times on the you-tube video each day and click on the dislike button 100 times a day to up the numbers. If the figure-skating officials listen to hate-blogs and fans, they will be paralyzed as they will never please everyone. That's why we need judge and jury. A law is never made on the basis of pleasing anyone.
What has the empty seats at 4CC got to do with Patrick? Did you make a proper survey in Colorado and USA as to the low attendance? I agree with Srin Odessa. The fact that currently, USA is short of dominant figure skaters (except ice dancing) partly contributes to the decline of FS in USA just as in other countries. Don't heap your blame on Chan. He is only dominant in 2011.
It is sad that you chose to attack Chan vehemently and heap your frustuations on him. I am not a maniac fan, Let's Talk. A maniac fan will attack others when their favourites lose just as in football hooliganism. I don't do that and has never spoke ill of any sportsmen/women who may not be in my favourite list. But I feel the need to defend Patrick first as a fan and secondly on the grounds of fairness and civility, as I defended Evans on you-tube after reading the uncalled for and vicious attacks on him even though I am not an Evan-fan.
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100 times a day? I don't think it's possible. Are you really sure? You have to log in to vote, and you can vote only once IIRC. You can click as many times as you want, but I don't think the number changes.
During Vancouver Olympic games, I was lurking an alternative music forum. Few users there took figure skating seriously because:
1. Winter sports are rich peoples' hobbies.
2. Figure skating is not a real sport because the judging system is subjective.
I don't think Chan is doing any better to the sport's image. (The China crisis thing made it even worse.) You guys spent pages after pages discussing COP in this thread, and I soon became sick of reading it, thinking "Geez, no wonder why this sport is not getting any popular in North America." You have to fully understand COP in order to appreciate how great Chan is. You even often need to explain COP to justify his winning. Casual viewers don't give a s**t to COP. Chan is an embodiment of COP, and not making figure skating any more popular.
I wondered what average Canadians thought on 2010 Skate Canada, in which Chan won Gold with four falls while Reynolds finished 4th with two 4T and two 4S.
During Vancouver, North Americans, even major media cast Plushenko as villain with 20th-century Cold War mentality. I don't understand why Chan or Lysacek should be immune to criticism.
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If you don't take fs seriously, that's your choice. I would rather fs remain a hobby for rich people and a gentlemen's sport rather than see it go down the drain like football hooliganism. Don't we have horse riding in Olympics? That's a gentlemen sport too!
Criticisms based on personal vendatta is uncalled for and should not be tolerated. Criticism comes in many forms. Some are valid whilst some are vindictive and personal. I don't the logic that because Plushy was criticized that others should be done so. The reverse is true.
I have no idea what average Canadians think but you can conduct a country wide survey if you wish.
The China crisis is media generated and an opportunity for racists to rant. Are you one of them?
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Well said. Your statement means something in this poor economy.
I don't think Chan's music selection would attract music fans either.
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- Aug 18, 2010
Figure skating, as we know of, cannot be more popular under pop culture, period!
You are right on all winter sports are rich people 's hobbies and figure skating is subjective. No one can change these. So they will remain like these. CoP has done a good job in the effort of minimizing the subjectivity of figure skating judging. Chan did not do anything wrong for the sport's image. In fact, the American commentators and the skaters like Johnny Weir did.
If you feel sick of reading about CoP analysis, stop reading them, but don't complain that you don't understand CoP and why this skater won over that skater.
As spikydurian said, the "China crisis" was created and hyped by media. The fact that you use that against Chan for diminishing the sport says a lot about yourself.
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- Jun 21, 2003
When I was a lad "Take Five" was "alternative music." (And don't even mention "Rondo a la Turk".)
Anyway, Patrick Chan did not invent the CoP. We may not like all aspects of the judging system, but we can't blame Patrick for that.
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Irrelevant personal aside: this post made me cry :'(
Er....onwards with the discussion! Sorry for the interruption.
I disagree, and I think that this is a very self-defeating attitude to take.
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- Sep 10, 2009
Japanese fans are not as stupid as you try to picture them. They figured things out long time ago. I can give you a bunch of links from 4CC and Euros from Jsport broadcast. They are all fine and well. You just don't know how to find them or you have a langauge barrier. As for NikaQuest account, you are quite wrong. The reason why her account has more views than anyone else's is because she uploaded the videos from geoblocked sportbox.ru and Sport-2 channel almost live. Many basically were watching events on her channel.
Yes, you are. You just attacked your opponent pouring all possible vocabs and didn't even bother to notice that taking your high moral ground of how much better you are! Well, actually I am a kind of accustomed to it from Chan Patrol. As for clicking on youtube, trust me the numbers won't change. But you don't have to believe me.
It doesn't work that way. Or you, those who are smart and understand, have to pay for everything in fs. Otherwise this sport will eventually die. Seats were empty.
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^ I thought you had written the thing about autosave in a post!and I had found it very cool , but maybe it was another moderator?
It was me!!
, I hadnt noticed before you said it and it is very cool feature when my explorer at work crashes!
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Wow, Doris, the autosave is cool feature indeed. I have on last few occassions lost my fast and furious words and had to retype ... what a pain but getting some back is better than none! Thanks. :=))It was me!!
Yes, but you cannot blame it on COP or Patrick Chan, otherwise how do you explain the popularity of figure skating in Japan and Korea? I think the main reason for the empty seats is the change of taste of the audience and the weak economy in North America. Just like classical music, figure skating will never attract as much audience as football does, but you cannot blame it on Perlman or Kissin. In a way, both classical music and figure skating are spiritually rich people 's cup of tea. That will not change.
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- Nov 19, 2010
Rich people 's sports and arts may be too expansive to take part in but are just as accessible for enjoyment and appreciation. Tickets to see the world's best figure skaters are much cheaper than tickets for a regular commercial sport game. Some equestrian events are free as well. Similarly, tickets for a hot pop star are much more expansive and hard to come by than for a classical concert. TV programs are equally free for any sport, except in the US.
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Agreed. That's why I added "spiritually" in front of "rich", because I can enjoy both classical music and figure skating while not being rich.
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- Sep 10, 2009
According to your logics it's because they have more spiritually rich people than North America. I don't dare to argue your conclusion at all.
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