In diving, one will receive a "0-point call" (aka "no-dive" or "no-score") if the feet enter the water first in a head-first dive regardless how good his approach and flight are. In skating, does one receive zero point for a jump if he lands on the butts instead of blade(s)?
Last edited by skatinginbc; 02-21-2012 at 08:00 PM.
If a skater planned seven quads and fell on all of them, that skater should lose to a skater who planned seven triples and landed them all.
Would this encourage a skater to omit the quad? No, it would encourage him to land it.
However, skaters who are attempting quads get more benefit than skaters who don't attempt them, and skaters who rotate the quad attempts get more benefit than those whose attempts are called as underrotated or downgraded.
Also, if the difference in difficulty level is high enough it can outweigh smaller differences in quality -- under any judging system, although the specifics will vary, just as they will vary with a different Scale of Values under the same IJS rules.
And if the quality of everything else is good enough, that can outweigh the points lost by a few major mistakes. The amount of points lost to those mistakes will vary depending on which year's Scale of Values is in effect.
However, to take a somewhat extreme example, suppose a skater of poor novice quality who deserves PCS in the low 3s and executes level 1 spins and steps with 0 or negative GOE, but 7 clean double jumps. And a skater of pretty good senior quality who deserves PCS in the 6s executes more difficult spins and steps with quality worthy of positive GOEs, and flubs 7 attempted triple jumps.
It's certainly possible in that situation that the second skater would win. (How serious are the flubs? What scoring system are we using? If IJS, what year's rules and SoV?)
In theory skaters that far apart in basic skating ability shouldn't be competing at the same competition, but it will happen sometimes. You could easily see a similar range of PCS and jumps attempted at a JGP event or at a US regional event.
However, if the skater with the doubles has much stronger skating and spins and high-quality doubles, s/he could conceivably beat even a skater who stands up on 7 rotated but mildly flubbed triples, let alone underrotated ones.
On the other hand, because of the high values of quads even with falls, if one skater lands 7 clean triples and another falls on 7 rotated quads, the quad guy is pretty much guaranteed to win. Especially since it's unlikely that a skater capable of attempting 7 quads would have weak skating skills.
So that's an argument in favor of increasing the value of the negative GOEs on quads so that failing to land them will not net lots of points.
GPF 2010 LP (two falls) - 78.64 8.14 7.64 7.68 7.93 7.93
WC 2011 LP (no falls) - 78.44 8.29 7.71 7.79 7.75 7.68
Oda did have a massive error at Worlds, but it was one of those counting errors that only destroyed the value of his skate (by 20 points) but was still a clean skate
I could post more examples if you like, but would you assert that the above example is a demonstration of the Japanese federation politicking?
Another advantage that a skater has if he can at least make a reasonable attempt at a quad is that he is saved from having to waste jumping passes on mere double Axels.
For instance, suppose a skater plans
Now what? He has a choice between his signature 4T< (fall) and a 2A, both of which net him 3.3 points. Might as well try the quad and hope to get lucky.
I originally brought up Patrick to talk about the impact of what is written on these board to talk about skater's marketability. I have realized that my recollection of what Patrick said was not sound upon being questioned, and that has made me rethink Patrick. However, many will not think so vigorously. I might venture to suggest that if a skater well-suited to CoP wins with multiple falls, it looks like s/he won politically.
I'm still laughing at the comment Johhny Weir is more attractive than Evan and that Evan bought his medal. He simply skated the best in Vancouver. This thread is getting very funny and people are very nationalistic when it comes to Dai and Pat. We all know Pat likely not definitely, but likely, has Sochi in the bag, with a fall cushion, unless the scoring system changes radically. Not much to discuss. Let's all put money on it. Then we can talk. Hanyu is the one who might upset the apple cart. Olympic judges are not as generous as at Nationals, Euros, GP events and even Worlds which isn't televised in America now. Since 2002, Olympics is different. Honesty and fairness are more scrutinized .2006 and 2010 Podiums were right on. Less cheating since Salt Lake scandal, but it still exists. Sochi Olympics can't afford Chan gate. Skating in Russia and at Olympics will be hardest for him. And who knows who might be World Champion in 2013? I have my money on Hanyu. Russian Olympics will fight Chanflation and any possible Changate. Maybe Artur is next champion. Should we be discussing if Artur can catch up with Chan by Sochi? Sad to say Dai is getting older. Time is his enemy.
Last edited by skateluvr; 02-21-2012 at 10:30 PM.
Go Patrick!smitten teenage girls are voting multiple times?
Anyway...I think one of the problems is that the fans have no way of being aware of or appreciating all the things that Patrick does better than other skaters. People generally feel that if someone is good enough to be in the top flight at the World Championship, then that skater automatically has solid skating skills, that he moves with grace and assurance, that he is attempting hard jumps, and so on. So what is there to judge between them except who stays upright and who doesn't?