02-10-2013, 07:55 PM
Very sad for Dai and I can totally understand the motivational issue. After give you all and treated so unfairly could mess up anyone's head. I think Liza suffered from this a bit early in the season after she give everything, went into a slump along with her growth spurt and the come back stronger.
I am sure Dai can rise out of this slump. I blame the Japanese Nationals Championship for this, they should really take care of ALL their bests, not just the few anointed ones.
I think he should go back to his old SP, the new one are trying too hard to be generic and classical which is not Dai that I fell in love with. He can potentially make anything work, but it is too similar to his FS.
02-11-2013, 01:11 PM
Don't worry, I am as sad as you are It's weird, because it's "just figure skating", but I was depressed and sad that entire day after Dai's free skate. It took a while for it to sink in with me that he actually finished 7th; he hasn't had a result like that in a long time. I know many people are going to start writing him off now, saying that he is too old, his body has had it, he's not as good as he used to be, the beginning of the end, and blah blah blah. But I could never believe that. I want so badly for him to come back at Worlds and skate lights out and prove all of those naysayers wrong. People have said "he's done" before, like after 2011 Worlds, and look what he has accomplished since then, so I don't doubt he can prove everyone wrong again.
Originally Posted by MaiKatze
It's especially sad that it had to happen in his home town. He looked so, I don't know - dejected?- after his free skate, and I just wished I could reach through the TV screen and give him a hug. He has said before that bad results give him motivation to do better next time, so I pray that is what will happen at Worlds. However, he has been known to struggle with his confidence, so I hope this won't affect his confidence (or the judges scores ). I wish I could tell him that I and all his fans still love him, and that I would never give up on him, and that he is still the best skater in the world. I can't stop thinking about the fact that this is his last World Championships - doesn't seem possible- and I want him to make it one to remember <3
Best of luck to Dai a Worlds! It is going to be hard for me to watch. I will have to watch it by myself - my family would think I'm crazy sitting on the edge of my chair, holding my breath, and covering my face. Haha.
02-12-2013, 07:39 AM
I blame JSF and Hashimoto personally for what happened on 4CC, as well as stupid J-media. Nobody in J-media now is talking about any male skater except Dai. As if all others suddenly disappeared or became non-interesting. That so-called rivalry with Dai was a fake from the start. It only put the younger guy under the heavy pressure that he couldn't handle, and the unfair result at JN hurt Dai probably more seriously than any of us originally could suggest. Here is the recent news clip with Dai (aired yesterday), they rant about his past difficulties and how he managed to overcome them and usual media blah-blah (better watched form 5:35 on more recent events): www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYn2UGWhuqQ Nevertheless, on the youtube channel 'icechannel2011' Dai is leading inspite of all mistakes he did: in SP over 24k views (with over 16k for Yuzu, 7k for Han and 2k Dornbush), in FS over 7k (with over 5k for Yuzu, 2k for Han, Kevin is on the top here- 15k).
02-12-2013, 08:53 AM
Here's the alternative links to Dai's performances at 4CC without commentators' rants (for those fans who missed the chance to watch online):
02-12-2013, 10:35 AM
Whoever doesn't realize that the so-called rivalry with Dai never existed in the first place? It was clearly set up by the media to build up the hype towards 4CC. It's just one of the conventional commercial strategies employed by Fuji TV to bring up the audience rating, especially since they came in 3rd in terms of the average TV rating for the month of January among the privately-owned television networks (even under TBS and TV Asahi; I sense that they're exasperated). But once everything is over, they'll go back to focusing on Dai. It's obvious that the Japanese public has been more supportive of Dai (just listened to the humongous amount of applause he receives everytime his programs end) due to his achievements and long career as a competitive athlete, having gone through countless difficulties along the way and having managed to overcome them. Naturally the crowd was much more sympathetic towards him and hence, the big sighs of disappointment when they saw his FS score on the screen. And boy, he deserves every ounce of support. But geez, there's no need to compare the number of views Dai's videos and the other skaters' videos received. It just makes you come across as a butthurt fan.
Originally Posted by let`s talk
Anyway, hopefully, he'll come back even stronger at Worlds as he has always done in the past. We, fans, support him all the way through.
02-12-2013, 10:35 AM
I've been thinking, why is Dai so firm on not working with Kenji on a competitive piece? Eye is easily one of my fav SPs from him and it did fairly well for him. I think he should go back to the Kenji + Camerlengo combination for next season.
Speaking of, anyone have a good/decent quality video of his Worlds Eye SP?
02-12-2013, 10:45 AM
02-12-2013, 10:51 AM
I wouldn't count him out after one bad competition. He is the Grand Prix Final gold medalist, so people who would count him out now are crazy. I doubt those same people would bet money on Reynolds winning Worlds just because of one competition (well, two, if you count Canadians).
Originally Posted by Butterscotch17
What do you mean by this? Yuzuru outskated Daisuke technically in both segments, and Daisuke was given higher PCS in both segments -- in fact, insanely high PCS in his freeskate. I'm glad Hanyu is there because that pushes Dai... hopefully he can recover for Worlds, because his FS is wonderful.
Originally Posted by os168
02-12-2013, 02:24 PM
That's what Dai himself has always been saying about Yuzuru. And he has never once mentioned he felt in anyway mistreated in Jpnse Nats (at least in public). I don't think losing that title hurt him so badly. He knew well that could happen from the start.
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
In the article below which quotes most of his words after 4CC, he's blaming none other than himself for the bad results. I don't have the time to translate each word, but he mainly says that after Nats he thinks he became a bit conceited, attention too relaxed, and thus did not practice hard enough. He also says that no skater should ever be allowed to skate like he did this time at Worlds, so he'll simply practice much harder never to let this kind of thing happen again. He concluded that his motivations had been rising up till Nats, but this time there was a part of him thinking he'll be okay which he admits to be his weakness, and he's learned that this is what happens if he gets carried away too much.
He's been in the sport long enough to figure out for himself what the problem was, and he's strong enough to overcome that. As you all know he's been through much worse in the past but managed to come back fine and even better. His Jpnse fans were heartbroken about 4CC, but they haven't lost hope for him at all. Most of them are actually optimistic about the whole thing and are relieved this sort of thing happened now; not at Worlds, not during next season. When Fuji tv interviewed him right after his FP, he seemed down and angry at himself, but when asked about Worlds he answered he won't waste this experience and will definitely do better there very strongly. He'll come back with confidence again, I think. I rather had the impression that Yuzuru's confidence was damaged more badly losing to Kevin. But IMHO, I think Yuzuru needed this. He's still young and needs much more experience, plus I felt he was becoming conceited much more than Dai recently.
It'll be pretty interesting to see, how Dai and Yuzuru will handle what happened to them at 4CC, and which of them can make more good out of it. I personally hope it'll be Dai. Yuzuru is talented, but to me he's still just a new kid on the block. Dai is a much more precious skater for me.
02-12-2013, 03:39 PM
Laughing Man -Thanks for the explanation of what Dai said after his LP. Funny he did not mention one thing about his boots.
I wonder if that was just a rumour.
02-12-2013, 07:59 PM
As a die-hard fan of Daisuke, I have to admit I'm a bit or severely biased. But I still can't get the edge call in SP and UR calls in SP and FP in JN. (especially the edge call) And strangely two of his spins in SP were level3, while all of them were level4 in both of NHK and GPF. For me, it's a bit too much to accept. Even Shizuka commented "the borderline calls yesterday ignited him." during the the FP broadcast.
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
That's why some of Daisuke's fans still thinks a part of judging in JN was unfair to him.
Moreover, the result of SP in JN made Daisuke decide to change his SP while he was so busy with new year's ice shows. He worked with Morozov until midnight even on the day after new year's day. (We Japanese rarely work on the day.) And now after losing in 4CC, he blamed it all on himself saying it was due to his self-conceit, laziness and so on. Poor boy… We know well he is the last person in the world to flatter himself, though. There was no such laziness. IMO, he just worked too hard or tried to work beyond what he could do.
Please don't get me wrong. I'm not against Yuzuru at all. He is a clear genius and probably also a victim of over hyped Japanese media. Watching 4CC I really felt sorry for both of them. They clearly looked tired or nervous there. They looked like burned out after competing against each other so badly in JN. The same thing could happen in Sochi.......
He usually doesn't say such an excuse by himself. But it's confirmed by some news sources.
Originally Posted by demarinis5
Last edited by carignan; 02-12-2013 at 08:56 PM.
02-12-2013, 09:15 PM
I am very torn because I happen to be a fan of both. I have especially been a a big early supporter of Hanyu even before he formally stepped on the Senior scene, particularly based on the R&J program alone made me think he is OGM material. Not really a fan of his programs this year, regardless of record breaking scores. He has become just another COP machine being told what it takes to win medals rather than skate from the heart. His performance on one hand is good for those who like jumps, but what makes me addicted to the sport is more for the art that I felt is missing from his programs this year... but then again, not many program these days excite me. It is natural progress though, any young skater hitting the big league inevitably have to find his voice again relative to the adult 'experts' around him telling him what he should do, how he should package his programs etc..
Originally Posted by CanadianSkaterGuy
I strongly believe Dai should be the rightful winner of the Japanese Nationals, and that his FS was something special. My opinion was stated on that thread, that result is obviously slanted for federations interest like how US federations have propped up certain skaters but not the others. It might be an unpopular opinion but it is what i see. If the score shows it differently then frankly there's something wrong with the COP system or the judging because how else can you explain the slant.
Whenever skaters put up their best but don't get the reward, it can mess up their head, and imo Dai's decision to do last moment changes to his SP is a knee jerk reaction to the judging he received comparatively to Hanyu's crazy SP score with super strong PCS (compare with his previous season and his early season scores). Unfortunately it is a risk that didn't pay off. It will take character to come back out of the slump, but if anyone can do it Dai can.
Last edited by os168; 02-12-2013 at 09:18 PM.
02-12-2013, 09:36 PM
As carignan says, Daisuke usually does not like blaming anything/anyone but himself, if it's an injury or boots, for bad performances/undesirable results. He never makes any excuse or whines like others do sometimes; e.g. 'I should deserve more PCS than x skater' or 'that's a bad lip call on my rather perfect flip', you know.
Originally Posted by demarinis5
Thanks a lot, Laughing Man for the translation!
And a big thank you to carignan, too. I agree. What's you have said as above is exactly my thought!
Throughout the entire 4CC, Dai looked pale, sweaty than normal (fever maybe?), exhausted, even burned out?, idk..., and unfocused (I was worried because he was so bubbly to the media at pre-competition press conf.) I really hope he will take some days off before re-start his preparation for Worlds.
Okay, for a change, a very nice pic from sweet Agnes!
oh my, how tall is she??? Dai is like...her younger brother here. But so glad to see his smile. Thanks a million, Agnes, for posting this sweet pic, and moreover for being so friendly to our boy!
02-12-2013, 09:49 PM
I think his flying sit he didn't hit the initial sit position for two rotations, so the tuck was considered his first position, and then the other two positions were variations, so it was called a level 3, but yeah, that was a borderline call. As for his camel, I thought it was pretty sloppy for how he can normally perform it (it might have been a level 3 if they deemed he didn't do two rotations of the camel's change of edge), and he's lucky to have received +2's on that element.
Originally Posted by carignan
02-12-2013, 11:30 PM
And a very beautiful montage by one of his fan.
Love the music. Sounds so strong as if heartbeats of the Earth; consoling like its matherly love and encouraging like its fatherly love.