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Thread: ISU World Team Trophy, April 2012, Tokyo

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by DobrinFan View Post
    I thought I read somewhere that they skate for Japan because Narumi didn't want to give up her Japanese citizenship. I heard it's really hard to get it back once you give it up.
    But it's possible to get dual nationality right? At least in Europe it is. She could remain Japanese *and* gain the Canadian nationality as well. Of course I have no idea what the Olympic protocol says about people with dual nationalities, but I assume that would be the logical solution.

  2. #242
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    I thought Japan doesnt allow double citizenship, at least I remember sth like that from Kavaguti issues.

  3. #243
    Custom Title demarinis5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    I thought Japan doesnt allow double citizenship, at least I remember sth like that from Kavaguti issues.
    You are correct.

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    Dual citizenship is not allowed because overwhelming majority of naturalization applicants are Koreans and Chinese.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by DobrinFan View Post
    Yes, I heard about Koreans living there for generations and still not being able to get citizenship. Don't know if that relationship between the Japanese and Koreans is still hostile though. So I know it's going to be hard [impossible] for Mervin to get citizenship since he has no blood relation to Japan, he's not living there, and can't speak and read Japanese fluently.
    I highly doubt Mervin will get citizenship even if he intends to. Usually Koreans or Chinese living in Japan adopt a Japanese surname (usually in Kanji) upon naturalization to avoid discrimination.

    Dual citizenship is not allowed in Japan. If you happen to have dual citizenship because your parents are Japanese citizens and you're born in another country, you have to decide on which nationality to keep before the age of 22. I believe the only way you can have two nationalities is if you were granted a special citizenship instead of acquiring one.

    At this point, Mervin and Narumi should stop thinking about the Olympics and just concentrate on skating. It's a very very slim chance that Mervin will become a Japanese citizen by 2014.
    Last edited by Becki; 04-11-2012 at 11:20 AM.

  6. #246
    Custom Title DianaSelene's Avatar
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    I think this is like Mirai Nagasu. I read that she currently has dual citizenship- US and Japan. Her parents don't have US citizenship. And she will have to decide by 22 whether she drops US or Japanese citizenship. She can't have both.

  7. #247
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    Narumi can't give up her Japanese citizenship because who's going to fund their skating? Mervin can't get Japanese citizenship because who's going to let him? So they will just have to be in limbo for the rest of their competitive career.

  8. #248
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    With the help of the JSF, I think it is very possible for Mervin to get Japan citizenship, It depends on what strings can be pulled.

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    The entry lists really show the lack of depth and weakness in some disciplines of a couple of federations: Russia has no substitute entry for Men (I guess they have already called in the substitutes) while Japan has none for their Pairs and Dance (I guess they are emptying out their Pairs and Dance barrels). There are plenty of Ladies from every federation, whatever level they are. Italy lists 3 Ladies substitutes and 2 Dance substitute teams.

    If girl Takahashi becomes a Canadian, who would host the WTT?

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Dual citizenship is not allowed because overwhelming majority of naturalization applicants are Koreans and Chinese.
    Sorry that's total non-sense and seems to infer those are somehow lesser or inferior people. I suppose when Yuko Kawaguchi, now Kavaguti, chose to give up her Japanese citizenship in order to represent Russia at the Olympics - they forbid her to obtain dual citizenship because Japan fears she might suddenly turn Chinese or Korean.

    A Japanese person can hold dual citizenship until he/she reaches 20 years old, by which point, he/she must make a choice. This applies to a lot of people who are born with one of the parent being Japanese. And it used to be only if the father is Japanese that the citizenship can be granted but after women groups protested about gender discrimination, it can now be applied to one or the other parent being Japanese.

    In practice, many of said children continue to hold dual citizenship past their 20th birthday. Why? Because there is no requirement to report any dual citizenship if you have had it since you were baby/kids. So if you don't tell the government and let's say you also have an American passport, no one would know. Since it's not actively checked, unless you plan to hold political office or seek government job, it really doesn't matter. But if a you are well known public person and high level figure skating athletes fall into this category, that means you won't be able to hide it because your citizenship information is public knowledge. If Narumi Takahashi is less than 20 years old, technically, she could hold Canadian citizenship but I am not sure what's her age now or for that matter, her legal status in Canada.

  11. #251
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    As far as I know, Japan is one of the most difficult countries to become a citizen of, and probably the easiest to lose one's citizenship from. Understandable considering the population size on their small rocky islands in contrast to the vast landmass of N America with relatively few residents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki View Post
    I highly doubt Mervin will get citizenship even if he intends to.
    If it can be shown that Mervin is the only thing that stands between Japan and the 2014 Olympic Gold medal in the FS Team Event, then even the ocean can filled and the mountain can be moved as well. Unlike other countries, the only medal Japan cares in the Olympics is the one in Gold color as the team's success is measured not by the number of total medals but how many Gold medals they get (which is usually 0 in the Winter Olympics)

    Usually Koreans or Chinese living in Japan adopt a Japanese surname (usually in Kanji) upon naturalization to avoid discrimination.
    Usually, Koreans living in Japan, even if they were born there and lived there for generations, continue to suffer discrimination no matter what they do. And in some cases, even if one of their parent is actually Japanese, it still doesn't matter. In some fields, employers will demand to know your "family tree" in order to assess your ancestry. To be fair, the same process can also discriminate against some Japanese if it is deemed their ancestry is not as dignified as it should be. The practice is rare these days but still exist. And Chinese do not need to adopt Kanji for their names because their names are Kanji to begin with. Granted, despite both being Kanji, the difference in name is immediately apparent in most cases akin to Spanish and French surnames, both using alphabets but with distinct and striking differences.

    Dual citizenship is not allowed in Japan. If you happen to have dual citizenship because your parents are Japanese citizens and you're born in another country, you have to decide on which nationality to keep before the age of 22. I believe the only way you can have two nationalities is if you were granted a special citizenship instead of acquiring one.
    It's 20 year old, not 22. A Japanese person is considered to reach adulthood at 20 and the adulthood ceremony is held on your 20th birthday.

    At this point, Mervin and Narumi should stop thinking about the Olympics and just concentrate on skating. It's a very very slim chance that Mervin will become a Japanese citizen by 2014.
    I don't think you should feel so certain about this. And asking these hard trained athletes to simply give up on their Olympic dream is quite insensitive.

  13. #253
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    I think it's time fans face a hard reality. Japan doesn't give out citizenship like sticks of gum. It's almost impossible to get it, once you loose it, it's hard too get back. Tran isn't even close to getting citizenship and won't be by even 2018. Japan really doesn't care if they won the bronze medal, they look at a bigger picture and even if they were a lock for gold, they still don't give citizenships away. At most it's two competitions, if they don't go.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by mousepotato View Post
    I think it's time fans face a hard reality. Japan doesn't give out citizenship like sticks of gum. It's almost impossible to get it, once you loose it, it's hard too get back. Tran isn't even close to getting citizenship and won't be by even 2018. Japan really doesn't care if they won the bronze medal, they look at a bigger picture and even if they were a lock for gold, they still don't give citizenships away. At most it's two competitions, if they don't go.
    this is sad but very true Japan is probably the hardest to get a visa or citizenship
    they won't get any special fasttrack VIP treatment though unlike some other countries would do for a eam with a possible Olympics rpresentation
    and Japan is a homogeneous country

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    If it can be shown that Mervin is the only thing that stands between Japan and the 2014 Olympic Gold medal in the FS Team Event, then even the ocean can filled and the mountain can be moved as well. Unlike other countries, the only medal Japan cares in the Olympics is the one in Gold color as the team's success is measured not by the number of total medals but how many Gold medals they get (which is usually 0 in the Winter Olympics)
    At the WTT event, the major competitors for OGM (T/T and S/S) are missing. I doubt that'll convince the Japanese federation to pull major strings to get Mervin a Japanese citizenship.


    Usually, Koreans living in Japan, even if they were born there and lived there for generations, continue to suffer discrimination no matter what they do. And in some cases, even if one of their parent is actually Japanese, it still doesn't matter. In some fields, employers will demand to know your "family tree" in order to assess your ancestry. To be fair, the same process can also discriminate against some Japanese if it is deemed their ancestry is not as dignified as it should be. The practice is rare these days but still exist. And Chinese do not need to adopt Kanji for their names because their names are Kanji to begin with. Granted, despite both being Kanji, the difference in name is immediately apparent in most cases akin to Spanish and French surnames, both using alphabets but with distinct and striking differences.
    I am just listing out a point. Of course there's still going to be discrimination, but that's just one of the practices (choosing Japanese surname) to deliberately avoid the occurrences of discrimination. Whether or not it works is another discussion.

    It's 20 year old, not 22. A Japanese person is considered to reach adulthood at 20 and the adulthood ceremony is held on your 20th birthday.
    Yes, I know the age of majority is 20 in Japan. But the age in which you have to decide on which nationality to keep is 22 (2 years after you turn 20). I am pretty positive about this.


    I don't think you should feel so certain about this. And asking these hard trained athletes to simply give up on their Olympic dream is quite insensitive.
    I didn't "ask" them to give up their Olympic dream. I just suggested they should stop thinking about the Olympics as their ultimate goal for now, and just focus on skating good programs. I would never encourage anyone to give up on something. If their dream is to make it to the Olympics in 2014, then that's a bit unrealistic. However, if their dream is to participate in the Olympics (not any given year), then I believe they will definitely find a way to fulfill it.
    Last edited by Becki; 04-11-2012 at 11:25 PM.

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