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Thread: ISU World Team Trophy, April 2012, Tokyo

  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    this is sad but very true Japan is probably the hardest to get a visa or citizenship
    they won't get any special fasttrack VIP treatment though unlike some other countries would do for a eam with a possible Olympics rpresentation
    and Japan is a homogeneous country
    Very true indeed. I am trying to be realistic here. At the end of the day, the Olympics is just another major competition. They have a lot of potential to win more medals at the World Championships (if they improve on their inconsistencies), and they should focus their energy on that. Their success should not be defined by whether or not they make it to the Olympic Games.

  2. #257
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    Canada could adopt them perhaps? Wouldn't that be interesting. We might never see Dube and Wolfe again but Duhamel and Radford and T squared would be a competitive couple of teams and then Canada would have three teams at worlds.

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    Russia is in huge trouble here. They don't have their best men, pairs, who knows who is the top dance team and heck arguably they don't have their best ladies. Potentially and arguably Russia in four events don't have their top skaters.

    Japan looks really good it is like the event was made for them with two mens and two ladies counting and based on the ordinal system I believe they don't have to worry so much about ice dance and the Reed's.

    Interesting that Czisny turned down the team competition; I think Zhang would have been a better choice than Gold and earned it as a senior but USA will be in the mix. A lot will depend on Canada who i don't think has much of a chance because of their ladies. Ironically the US and Canada are interdependent right now in a lot of ways. In pairs these teams fight it out for top ten and probably if you removed one of them, the other would have a decent shot of earning three teams. Likewise in men. And in dance well you have the huge rivaly of D and W versus V and M. fortunately, this won't lead to a war - I hope

    as for the Olympics that is a different game. I am wondering if it is the ordinal system or is it accumulated points from COP. It is possible for Japan to do well on the ordinal system as there are only 5 teams left for the medal round so the worst in dance is 5th but if they are first in men's and women and say second or third in pairs they could win. Of course if they are 5th in dance and 5th in pairs then a gold is probably unlikely - unless there is such a jumbo of results and ordinals just work in their favour anything is possible. One would think USA, Canada, Japan and Russia would be favoured and then the fifth spot maybe Italy or France or if China makes a huge surge as they seem to be developing - men, women and dance to go with their already strong pairs.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post

    Interesting that Czisny turned down the team competition; I think Zhang would have been a better choice than Gold and earned it as a senior but USA will be in the mix.
    Actually, Alissa wanted to go but her coach said no. She told this in her recent interview.

  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    As for the Olympics that is a different game. I am wondering if it is the ordinal system or is it accumulated points from COP.
    Ordinal placements. 10 points for first place down to 1 point for tenth place in the short program, ten points down to six points in the free.

    It is possible for Japan to do well on the ordinal system as there are only 5 teams left for the medal round so the worst in dance is 5th but if they are first in men's and women and say second or third in pairs they could win.
    However, the short program is crucial. The points are carried over from the short program and added on to the points for the free. The points are not doubled for the free skating, or anything like that. So if a dance team got last in the short dance (1 point), while all the other top five teams got in the upper range, that could still be a killer.

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by DobrinFan View Post
    I heard it's really hard to get it back once you give it up.
    A child of Japanese has a much faster track in getting it back. And the status "child" in this case doesn't have any age limits.
    Quote Originally Posted by NMURA View Post
    Dual citizenship is not allowed because overwhelming majority of naturalization applicants are Koreans and Chinese.
    So? I don't see what your point is.

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Russia is in huge trouble here. They don't have their best men, pairs, who knows who is the top dance team and heck arguably they don't have their best ladies. Potentially and arguably Russia in four events don't have their top skaters.

    .
    They are going to come in last probably. Do they really care that much? Doubtful.

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    If it can be shown that Mervin is the only thing that stands between Japan and the 2014 Olympic Gold medal in the FS Team Event, then even the ocean can filled and the mountain can be moved as well. Unlike other countries, the only medal Japan cares in the Olympics is the one in Gold color as the team's success is measured not by the number of total medals but how many Gold medals they get (which is usually 0 in the Winter Olympics)
    Even if Tran were given citizenship, Japan wouldn't have a realistic shot at the Team gold because their dance team (the Reeds) is not in any way competitive with the dance teams of the other major figure skating federations. And Takahashi/Tran wouldn't even be likely to place first in the Pairs event anyway. I am sure Japanese officials are quite well aware of this.

    Japan has never granted citizenship to anyone based on special merit, and I am afraid that Mervin Tran is not going to be the first recipient.

  9. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki View Post
    ... I am trying to be realistic here. At the end of the day, the Olympics is just another major competition. They have a lot of potential to win more medals at the World Championships (if they improve on their inconsistencies), and they should focus their energy on that. Their success should not be defined by whether or not they make it to the Olympic Games.
    Japan will host Four Continents 2013, so a medal there would be especially exciting for Takahashi/Tran and their fans. I agree that T/T's success should not be defined by whether they ever have the opportunity to become Olympians.
    But I do not agree that the Olympic Games are "just another major competition." Athletes from many sports have said that they cherish not only the gratification of performing in an Olympic event, but also the totality of their multi-faceted experiences throughout the Games.

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by golden411 View Post
    Japan will host Four Continents 2013, so a medal there would be especially exciting for Takahashi/Tran and their fans. I agree that T/T's success should not be defined by whether they ever have the opportunity to become Olympians.
    But I do not agree that the Olympic Games are "just another major competition." Athletes from many sports have said that they cherish not only the gratification of performing in an Olympic event, but also the totality of their multi-faceted experiences throughout the Games.
    What I meant by "the Olympic Games is just another major competition" is that the games is not life or death for most athletes. There is always going to be life after the Olympics, and even though a victory at the Olympics might glorify or define your career, it's not going to be the end of the world if you don't participate or do horribly. It's another competition, and should be faced with the same attitude and spirit as any other competition. It's the "just another competition" mindset that's going to put off the pressure, and help the athletes enjoy the wonderful Olympic experience

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki View Post
    What I meant by "the Olympic Games is just another major competition" is that the games is not life or death for most athletes. There is always going to be life after the Olympics, and even though a victory at the Olympics might glorify or define your career, it's not going to be the end of the world if you don't participate or do horribly. It's another competition, and should be faced with the same attitude and spirit as any other competition. It's the "just another competition" mindset that's going to put off the pressure, and help the athletes enjoy the wonderful Olympic experience
    Tell this to Kurt Browning, Brian Joubert and Carolina Kostner.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becki View Post
    What I meant by "the Olympic Games is just another major competition" is that the games is not life or death for most athletes. There is always going to be life after the Olympics, and even though a victory at the Olympics might glorify or define your career, it's not going to be the end of the world if you don't participate or do horribly. It's another competition, and should be faced with the same attitude and spirit as any other competition. It's the "just another competition" mindset that's going to put off the pressure, and help the athletes enjoy the wonderful Olympic experience
    I disagree. If you bomb at Worlds you can come back the very next year but if you bomb at the Olympics it might be the only time you ever have a chance since the Olympics only come every 4 years. For for most athletes their peak might be that one Olympics only and they might never get close again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckm View Post
    Even if Tran were given citizenship, Japan wouldn't have a realistic shot at the Team gold because their dance team (the Reeds) is not in any way competitive with the dance teams of the other major figure skating federations. And Takahashi/Tran wouldn't even be likely to place first in the Pairs event anyway. I am sure Japanese officials are quite well aware of this.

    Japan has never granted citizenship to anyone based on special merit, and I am afraid that Mervin Tran is not going to be the first recipient.
    me too, I don't know why so many are jumping in the bandwagon that T/T are now a potential pairs Olympics podium
    they won bronze with the many mistakes of the other top pairs, I don't even think they will top this WTT, a clean B/L and D/R will outscore a clean T/T

    while T/T are talented; right now they still need more consistency and prove their bronze win was not a fluke
    If they can still be outscored by S/H , I don't think they are that good yet

    regarding the Reeds, they will surely score a new SB here, based on the lack and not that many competitors regardless that they did not even qualified for the SD in Worlds, lol. btw, Ice Dance only gets to perform their FD in WTT, correct ?

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky_fly20 View Post
    regarding the Reeds, they will surely score a new SB here, based on the lack and not that many competitors regardless that they did not even qualified for the SD in Worlds, lol. btw, Ice Dance only gets to perform their FD in WTT, correct ?
    No, not only FD.
    All four disciplines are to get to perform SP(SD) + FS(FD) at WTT.

    WTT kicks off with Short dance on Thu, Apr 19 at 15:15 (Japan time).

    Sorry, I cannot find any link in English for you. Attached below is the only link I can find now.

    http://deep-edge.net/event_detail.php?No=525

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by deedee1 View Post
    No, not only FD.
    All four disciplines are to get to perform SP(SD) + FS(FD) at WTT.

    WTT kicks off with Short dance on Thu, Apr 19 at 15:15 (Japan time).

    Sorry, I cannot find any link in English for you. Attached below is the only link I can find now.

    http://deep-edge.net/event_detail.php?No=525
    ISU site has the WTT schedule in English:
    http://www.isuresults.com/events/WTT...ceSchedule.pdf
    [Yes, the original ISU url has a typo in "Practice".]

    And I've copied and pasted below the text from the WTT announcement that was issued in Dec.
    The times of the competitions are the same below as in the PDF, but my disclaimer is that I have *not* cross-checked the times of practices, meetings, etc.
    21. EVENT SCHEDULE
    - Tuesday, April 17, 2012
    All day Arrival of teams
    - Wednesday, April 18, 2012
    07:00 Official Practice
    14:00 Team Leaders Meeting
    17:00 Referees and Technical Controllers Meeting
    18:00 Judges Meeting
    19:30 Opening Ceremony & Reception
    - Thursday, April 19, 2012
    08:30 Official Practice
    14:40 Opening Ceremony on Ice
    15:15 ICE DANCE Short Dance
    16:35 MEN Short Program
    18: 40 LADIES Short Program
    - Friday, April 20, 2012
    08:30 Official Practice
    15:00 PAIRS Short Program
    16:25 ICE DANCE Free Dance
    18:00 MEN Free Skating
    - Saturday, April 21, 2012
    Official Practice [no time specified]
    09:00 Round Table Discussion ICE DANCE
    10:15 Round Table Discussion MEN
    15:15 PAIRS Free Skating
    16:50 LADIES Free Skating
    App.18:35 Award Ceremony
    21:00 Prize Giving Ceremony and Closing Banquet
    - Sunday, April 22, 2012
    07:30 EXHIBITION practice
    09:30 Round Table Discussion PAIRS
    10:15 Round Table Discussion LADIES
    14:00 GALA EXHIBITION
    Subject to changes

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