Martiusheva and Rogonov: Will they be given another chance?

sky_fly20 · Feb 14, 2012

Russian Pairs Teams have the deepest field in Pairs discipline, they have World Class skaters Volosozhar/Trankov, Kavaguti/Smirnov and Bazarova/Larionov also the other talents of the voidy athletic Stolbova/Klimov, the upcoming talented juniors Davankova/Deputat and the junior technical jumpers Gainetdinova/Bich but others have been left out, and it breaks me to see talented skaters left at home elegant pairs Martiusheva/Rogonov; they like Iliushechkina/Maisuradze have been struggling for seasons but M/R have been really working hard and Martiusheva has made improvements with her SBS and jumps as a whole, their showing at Nationals also showed that getting the bronze medal.

don't know what their saying but their latest video showing they are very determined, hopefully they will be given another chance at competing in GP
and not just in B competitions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBy_72jlzy0&feature=player_embedded

I don't understand how they are always left out when some other russian pairs
like Gerboldt/Enbert are given another chance every season in grand prix assignments who aren't even that promising, tbh :disapp:

I am looking forward to seeing them in international grand prix competitions for improvements
I hope the RFSF considers this.....

Eris · Feb 15, 2012

What chance are you talking about? They've always been super beautiful ane exquisite but Anastasia had troubles with landing SBS jumps and even throws sometimes. There was no reason to give them a GP spot.
They did surprisingly awesome at Russian Nationals and now are actually the 5th pair team in Russia which is not that bad.

But they still have to prove that it was not a fluke and they're becoming consistent. AFAIK they're planning to take part in the CoR Final later this month.

sky_fly20 said:
don't know what their saying but their latest video showing they are very determined, hopefully they will be given another chance at competing in GP

Actually this clip is not informative at all. Alexey says: "We're doing a lift and a death spiral"
This TV program is to familiarize ordinary audience with figure skating basics... like to explain and show what a death spiral is.

seniorita · Feb 15, 2012

What do you mean another chance? She is not even 17 yet :laugh:

Didnt they have trouble with age difference since she was not eligible for seniors and he was not for juniors for last couple of years, in addition to all her jumps issues?
They are a beautiful pair, and like I/M, I m waiting for them to shine after Sochi. :love:

Eris · Feb 15, 2012

seniorita said:
Didnt they have trouble with age difference since she was not eligible for seniors and he was not for juniors for last couple of years,

They did, but only for one season, 09-10.

sky_fly20 · Feb 15, 2012

Eris said:
What chance are you talking about? They've always been super beautiful ane exquisite but Anastasia had troubles with landing SBS jumps and even throws sometimes. There was no reason to give them a GP spot.
They did surprisingly awesome at Russian Nationals and now are actually the 5th pair team in Russia which is not that bad.
But they still have to prove that it was not a fluke and they're becoming consistent. AFAIK they're planning to take part in the CoR Final later this month.

Actually this clip is not informative at all. Alexey says: "We're doing a lift and a death spiral"
This TV program is to familiarize ordinary audience with figure skating basics... like to explain and show what a death spiral is.

I'm talking about giving Martiusheva/Rogonov another GP shot. its like the RFSF has been too hard on them and not forgiven them for bombing their first grand prix.
surely a bronze at nationals would merit something, although I agree they need consistency but they have been steadily improving. I would hate to see them just competing in B competitions again,

. such a shame if they will just be alternates for such an elegant and classical russian pair

like why are Gerboldt/Enbert given that chance, when they can heavily bomb even worst yet they are always given GP slots.
yet they can't even win in B competitions as well

DianaSelene · Feb 15, 2012

sky_fly20 said:
I'm talking about giving Martiusheva/Rogonov another GP shot. its like the RFSF has been too hard on them and not forgiven them for bombing their first grand prix.
surely a bronze at nationals would merit something, although I agree they need consistency but they have been steadily improving. I would hate to see them just competing in B competitions again, . such a shame if they will just be alternates for such an elegant and classical russian pair

like why are Gerboldt/Enbert given that chance, when they can heavily bomb even worst yet they are always given GP slots.
yet they can't even win in B competitions as well

It may possibly have to do with G/E being coached by Moskvina and Dmitriev, while M/R are coached by Natalia Pavlova. This should not be an excuse, but the federation might think that Moskvina's pairs are often successful so they need more experience. M/R also haven't gotten 4th at Euros like G/E. It doesn't help that their coach is not as famous or successful. Sad.

sky_fly20 · Feb 15, 2012

DianaSelene said:
It may possibly have to do with G/E being coached by Moskvina and Dmitriev, while M/R are coached by Anna Pavlova. This should not be an excuse, but the federation might think that Moskvina's pairs are often successful so they need more experience. M/R also haven't gotten 4th at Euros like G/E. It doesn't help that their coach is not as famous or successful. Sad.

I've weighed in that if it could be the Moskvina factor
which would be very sad, hate it when the coaches' influence are the basis for a so called reputation. :disapp:

G/E have been with Moskvina for how man seasons now ?
and yet they are not improving, imo

DianaSelene · Feb 15, 2012

sky_fly20 said:
I've weighed in that if it could be the Moskvina factor
which would be very sad, hate it when the coaches' influence are the basis for a so called reputation. :disapp:

G/E have been with Moskvina for how man seasons now ?
and yet they are not improving, imo

2 seasons I believe.

Nadine · Feb 15, 2012

sky_fly20 said:
Russian Pairs Teams have the deepest field in Pairs discipline, they have World Class skaters Volosozhar/Trankov, Kavaguti/Smirnov and Bazarova/Larionov also the other talents of the voidy athletic Stolbova/Klimov, the upcoming talented juniors Davankova/Deputat and the junior technical jumpers Gainetdinova/Bich but others have been left out, and it breaks me to see talented skaters left at home elegant pairs Martiusheva/Rogonov; they like Iliushechkina/Maisuradze have been struggling for seasons but M/R have been really working hard and Martiusheva has made improvements with her SBS and jumps as a whole, their showing at Nationals also showed that getting the bronze medal.

don't know what their saying but their latest video showing they are very determined, hopefully they will be given another chance at competing in GP
and not just in B competitions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBy_72jlzy0&feature=player_embedded

I don't understand how they are always left out when some other russian pairs
like Gerboldt/Enbert are given another chance every season in grand prix assignments who aren't even that promising, tbh :disapp:

I am looking forward to seeing them in international grand prix competitions for improvements
I hope the RFSF considers this.....

Hmmm, I recognize the first 3 Russian Pair Teams you list in your first sentence, which I would describe as V&T (athletic circus pair, line not good), K&S (veterain pair, combo. of athletic & artistic, but trouble sometimes with landing the jumps), B&L (reminiscent of Donlan & Speroff, but D&S more expressive & exquisite imho). And I think I remember S&K as having skated to "Bolero" this season? If so, their line is not good, nowhere close to the other three Russian Pair Teams mentioned. Jmho.

Looking at what I just wrote, I wouldn't consider Russia to have the deepest field in the world at all, not by far. They're all beatable and have things to work on. It's not like they're G&G. Yes, V&T is just like that athletic German pair, whom I don't consider tops either.

Yes, they're both winning medals, but that doesn't impress me. It's the skating that impresses me, and out of the 3 Russian Teams mentioned, I enjoy K&S and B&L way more than I do V&T. But none of them come close to Sui & Han of China. :love:

Now I know why the German pair is working hard on their throw 3axel, they'll need it if they hope to overtake Sui & Han (whom have the 4twist & 4throw in their arsenal) by the time Sochi 2014 gets here. And they're not the only ones, same goes for everybody else. Jmho.

I was going to write whomever wants it the most will rise to the top, but sometimes that doesn't always work. Take for example Kavaguit, she obviously wants it, but has so many broken bones and injuries from wanting it that desire alone doesn't always work, one's body has to hold up as well, and that means divine intervention...

GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE PAIRS' FROM AROUND THE WORLD!

sky_fly20 · Feb 15, 2012

^
well I do consider russian pairs as having the deepest set of pair teams, beatable ? yes, but not all of them at the same time can come close, not for now at least. China is good too, having said that, there are other teams left not competing or sent to Alternates/B comps like with the case of Martiusheva and Rogonov . they are a pair that needs a lot to work on especially the jump issues but are steadily improving.

so why are we discussing Sui/Han Gold for Sochi ? although they have interesting tricks and can do quads but their basic skating are just awful , so I don't sorry, they are not a lock for gold by a long shot in 2014. maybe 2018.

with that said, I hope the RFSF considers this, M/R have a more promising pairs future than G/E

2 GP assignments by next season should be more than enough for a fair challenge for them to show their improvements .
I will be surprised if they give the spot again to G/E over M/R

ivy · Feb 15, 2012

I'm wondering why none of these pairs chose to represent some of the countries from the former USSR. If Misha Ge can represent Uzbekistan, why not. Wouldn't some of theses teams trying to find a space on the Russian team have an easier time representing Belarus, Tajikistan or Kyrgyzstan? I'm not sure what all the rules exactly are, but it seems the connection can be pretty tenuous for ISU competitions, maybe harder for the Oly's where I believe citizenship for a given # of years is required

DianaSelene · Feb 15, 2012

ivy said:
I'm wondering why none of these pairs chose to represent some of the countries from the former USSR. If Misha Ge can represent Uzbekistan, why not. Wouldn't some of theses teams trying to find a space on the Russian team have an easier time representing Belarus, Tajikistan or Kyrgyzstan? I'm not sure what all the rules exactly are, but it seems the connection can be pretty tenuous for ISU competitions, maybe harder for the Oly's where I believe citizenship for a given # of years is required

Well, they might be able to but there are a few factors. For one, they might be Russian and want to represent their own country. Misha Ge has Uzbek relatives and it is easier for him to represent Uzbekistan so he does. But not everyone wants to do that. Also, Russia pays well to athletes, something they might not get elsewhere. I think M/R are probably satisfied with the money their federation gives them, while other countries might not want to sponsor them. Also, Zlobina/Sitnikov changed to Azerbaijan but that is considering they knew Russia would not let them get higher than 6th or 5th. M/R and some other skaters may go up the ranks if they start skating better.

sky_fly20 · Feb 16, 2012

ivy said:
I'm wondering why none of these pairs chose to represent some of the countries from the former USSR. If Misha Ge can represent Uzbekistan, why not. Wouldn't some of theses teams trying to find a space on the Russian team have an easier time representing Belarus, Tajikistan or Kyrgyzstan? I'm not sure what all the rules exactly are, but it seems the connection can be pretty tenuous for ISU competitions, maybe harder for the Oly's where I believe citizenship for a given # of years is required

Tajikistan , Kyrgyzstan are not that easy to switch to those nationalities, maybe Belarus because of the union of the 2 countries will make it easier
but for some reason skaters choose to represent either Azerbaijan or Uzbekistan. these countries I think pays incentives and bonus for skaters
who choose to represent for their countries.

also its mostly for those skaters who have ethnic composition or connection to those countries that it will be easier
and for those that want to be represented internationally but had no chance nationally, M/R have competed in international competitions

Eris · Feb 16, 2012

DianaSelene said:
M/R are coached by Anna Pavlova.

Natalia Pavlova.

tulosai · Feb 16, 2012

Nadine said:
Looking at what I just wrote, I wouldn't consider Russia to have the deepest field in the world at all, not by far. They're all beatable and have things to work on. It's not like they're G&G. Yes, V&T is just like that athletic German pair, whom I don't consider tops either. Yes, they're both winning medals, but that doesn't impress me. It's the skating that impresses me, and out of the 3 Russian Teams mentioned, I enjoy K&S and B&L way more than I do V&T. But none of them come close to Sui & Han of China.

As someone else already said I guess it depends what you mean by 'deepest'. In my mind it means that in any given day all of the top teams from that country are legitimately in the mix for a medal, and that the team has three slots. China is definitely up there but I would not call it deepest right now. Further, in Russia there are other pairs teams below the top 3 who are improving and really very well could be in the mix for medals soon. I don't think this is true of any other country to quite this degree right now. That doesn't mean none of these top 3 pairs can be beaten- they all can, though actually, with the exception of B/L, right now at this second I believe they can only be beaten by S/S and I don't think that being maybe beaten by them some (or even all) days means Germany has the deeper program.

DianaSelene said:
Well, they might be able to but there are a few factors. For one, they might be Russian and want to represent their own country. Misha Ge has Uzbek relatives and it is easier for him to represent Uzbekistan so he does. But not everyone wants to do that. Also, Russia pays well to athletes, something they might not get elsewhere. I think M/R are probably satisfied with the money their federation gives them, while other countries might not want to sponsor them. Also, Zlobina/Sitnikov changed to Azerbaijan but that is considering they knew Russia would not let them get higher than 6th or 5th. M/R and some other skaters may go up the ranks if they start skating better.

This. I imagine it is hard to go from a federation where all your expenses are taken care of (and it really often is ALL of them, but no matter what and always your skating expenses are taken care of) to a federation where that might not be the case, where you would need to find a new coach (as the Russian coaches only coach Russian pairs as far as I know- it''s not like Canton there) and probably have access to skating facilities that are not as good. Further, as Diana mentions, you have to consider nationalism and the fact that many of these skaters might not even speak the language in the other countries you cite- in Tajikistan for example some/many people doubtless speak Russian but it is not the official language.

mousepotato · Feb 16, 2012

Nadine said:
Now I know why the German pair is working hard on their throw 3axel, they'll need it if they hope to overtake Sui & Han (whom have the 4twist & 4throw in their arsenal) by the time Sochi 2014 gets here. And they're not the only ones, same goes for everybody else. Jmho.

I'm sorry, is this a joke?

mousepotato · Feb 16, 2012

M/R have nothing to worry about. They are very young. Russia has good pairs but so does Canada and the US. The only difference is Russian has three high level pairs that set them apart. After Sochi they will only have one (B/L). Every country has pairs that are up and coming and may reach the top and some that may go nowhere, it's a waiting game in all countries. After 2014 Germany will have no one unless V/VC step up or H/W get really good. Honestly I don't see it happening.

sky_fly20 · Feb 16, 2012

^

I think B/L said their only Olympics aim also is 2014
the top 3 russian pairs may have their last olympics in 2014, so hopefully these means the younger pairs like M/R will shine after 2014.
but they will be competing for the spots with Stolbova/Klimov and younger juniors like Daankova/Deputat and Gainetdinova/Bich

I just hope they don't get duped by influence in favor of others
like Gerboldt/Enbert. they too must have to prove their placement.

Nadine · Feb 16, 2012

mousepotato said:
I'm sorry, is this a joke?

Am I laughing, was there an emoticon rotflmao? No, there was not, so, no, it is not a joke.

Sui & Han are the team to beat, which they will continue to prove as they transition from juniors to seniors, mark my words.

DianaSelene · Feb 16, 2012

Eris said:
Natalia Pavlova.

Oops, I meant Natalia.... Anna Pavlova was a ballerina.

Martiusheva and Rogonov: Will they be given another chance?

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

Eris

seniorita

Eris

sky_fly20

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DianaSelene

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

DianaSelene

Nadine

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

ivy

DianaSelene

sky_fly20

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Eris

tulosai

mousepotato

mousepotato

sky_fly20

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Nadine

DianaSelene

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