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Thread: International Challenge Cup - The Hague, Mar 8-11

  1. #76
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    The distinction about "medallists" in the 1980's is a false one, since the reasons the free skate experts were not getting medals was their school figures, not their lack of jumps:

    As to jumps in the 1980's, Midori Ito, Kristi Yamaguchi & Tonya Harding were often landing more content than Kostner does today, as well as Liz Manley. Ito had all her triples, landing her first 3A in 1988, Harding had all the triples less the axel, and Kristi was lacking the axel, and never could do a decent 3S.

    Not to mention the 1987 World JR Champion, Cindy Bortz, whose jumps did not survive her transition to seniors.

    Ito's 1988 LP at the Olympics is still one of the finest ladies' technical skates ever.

    As to medallists in the early 1980's, Zayak landed more than 4 triple jumps, although she did not have the triple lutz or flip.

  2. #77
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    Amodio withdraw due an injury on his groin ... :s I heard US team is going back to USA for 2 weeks after CC 2012 and than coming back to Europe for worlds

  3. #78
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    I'm sorry to hear that about Florent, because as I've always stated the very best competitions are when everybody skates their best and you win. Now with Florent's withdrawal that won't be possible. :(

    Here's praying that Amodio's groin injury will be treated right away and monitored, as groin injuries are the worst, and oftentimes they come back (witness Elvis Stojko skating with a groin injury at the 2002 Olympics). :( He was never the same after he sustained his first one. Jmho.

    Returning to the competition, I'm actually rooting for Samuel Contesti.

  4. #79
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I'm rooting for Jorik Hendrickx of Belgium (5th in the SP). I just watched his SP-very nicely done. It's nice to see that men's skating in Belgium will still have a strong competitor after Kevin vdP retires!

    He had the second highest TES behind Amodio and I thought he was a bit robbed in the PCS department.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 03-10-2012 at 05:09 AM.

  5. #80
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Oh Hendrix was one of my favs in Euros, I noticed him first time there in practices, I like his Lp most, and I think he will go further, he is very good!
    Bad about Amodio's injury I hope it doesnt affect his Worlds performaces. And a thing Amodio doesnt lack is command and presence, he maybe needs better programs, especially the lp, but I wouldnt compare him with Oda.
    I m happy for Joubert.
    Contesti's sp is really not good, so I ll agree his pcs are a question. But he has a lot of personality in Lp. I dont know if he is a natural jumper or not, but does anyone else think his landings are clumpsy?

  6. #81
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    Videos - Mens Short Program (Updated)

    1. Florent AMODIO (FRA) and 2nd Copy
    2. Brian JOUBERT (FRA) and 2nd Copy)
    3. Jeremy ABBOTT (USA) and 2nd Copy
    4. Samuel CONTESTI (ITA)
    5. Jorik HENDRICKX (BEL)
    6. Ivan BARIEV (RUS) and 2nd Copy
    7. Peter LIEBERS (GER)
    8. Laurent ALVAREZ (SUI)
    10. Kim LUCINE (MON)
    11. Paul FENTZ (GER)
    12. Stéphane WALKER (SUI)
    13. Julian LAGUS (FIN)
    14. David RICHARDSON (GBR)
    15. Taras RAJEC (SVK)
    16. Viktor ZUBIK (FIN)
    Last edited by Mao88; 03-10-2012 at 07:28 AM.

  7. #82
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    Videos - Ladies Short Program

    1. Carolina KOSTNER (ITA)
    2. Alissa CZISNY (USA)
    3. Valentina MARCHEI (ITA)
    4. Myriam LEUENBERGER (SUI)
    5. Lena MARROCCO (FRA)
    6. Kerstin FRANK (AUT)
    7. Haruna SUZUKI (JPN)
    8. Viktoria HELGESSON (SWE)
    10. Fleur MAXWELL (LUX)
    11. Romy BÜHLER (SUI)
    12. Cecillia TÖRN (FIN)
    13. Anne Line GJERSEM (NOR)
    14. Henriikka HIETANIEMI (FIN)
    15. Rosaliina KUPARINEN (FIN)
    16. Belinda SCHÖNBERGER (AUT)
    17. Kana MURAMOTO (JPN)
    18. Isabel DRESCHER (GER)
    19. Eva LIM (NED)
    20. Jennifer URBAN (GER)
    21. Sandy HOFFMANN (GER)
    22. Michelle COUWENBERG (NED)
    23. Dasa GRM (SLO)
    24. Ami PAREKH (IND)
    Last edited by Mao88; 03-10-2012 at 04:51 PM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    The distinction about "medallists" in the 1980's is a false one, since the reasons the free skate experts were not getting medals was their school figures, not their lack of jumps:
    And "maturity" in their freeskating, whatever that meant to the judges at the time. For the most part the younger girls who could do more jumps weren't winning senior freeskates either.

    As to jumps in the 1980's, Midori Ito, Kristi Yamaguchi & Tonya Harding were often landing more content than Kostner does today, as well as Liz Manley. Ito had all her triples, landing her first 3A in 1988, Harding had all the triples less the axel, and Kristi was lacking the axel, and never could do a decent 3S.
    Still, you're talking about exceptions, not what was the norm for the 1980s. Manley didn't have a triple loop or a 3-3 combo, so I don't think we can say she was doing "more" jump content than Kostner is doing now. Same for Bortz as far as I can tell.

    Ito's 1988 LP at the Olympics is still one of the finest ladies' technical skates ever.
    Yes, and it was a complete exception to what was typical 1980s jump content. It makes more sense to say that Ito was doing 1990s or 2000s jump content than that someone who is doing more than 95% of what 1980s women were doing has "1980s jump content."

  9. #84
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    Liz Manley did have a triple loop. Check 88 Olympics

  10. #85
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    Karyn Cadavy had a gorgeous triple loop!

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by loveskating View Post
    Karyn Cadavy had a gorgeous triple loop!
    You got the 'C' and the 'K' the wrong way around. You were probably typing too fast (I sometimes do the same thing)!

    Here's the triple loop in all its glory:-

    Caryn Kadavy - 1993 Pro-Am Figure Skating Challenge

    Caryn Kadavy - 1986 U.S. Nationals

    Caryn Kadavy - 1987 Worlds

    I've always thought it was a real pity she never stayed on after the 1987/88 season. I always rated her much higher than Jill Trenary and she could have easily won the World title during the 2 years that compulsories remained in place (i.e. with Midori Ito being held back by the school figures).

    Caryn was one of the most graceful and artistic skaters I've ever seen. She stood 6th after the SP at the 1988 Olympics, and then caught the flu and had to withdraw. Must have been absolutely heartbreaking for her.
    Last edited by Mao88; 03-10-2012 at 08:14 AM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateflower View Post
    Pathetic! I can't stand Carolina for her being overscored repeatedly with a novice level jump layout. She has been quite 'consistent' and 'successful' for the past 2 years by massively scaling down the jump difficulty. It's beyond pathetic.
    No it's not pathetic! Top three ladies were way overscored at this event! Valentina's got almost 58 points with a clean skate when she never reached 55 AFAIR even with clean skates...Alyssa's got almost 60 points without a required jump element and Carolina did 3t2t instead of 3t3t and still got her second season best...but the result was fair...carolina had the third technical score but her components held her up (rightly so since she skated clean and has much more quality than anyone else in that competition)
    Seeing the video I think she aborted the 2nd toe because of the size of the rink..she's so fast and maybe she thought it wasn't big enough...
    She doesn't have a novice jump layout at all...she has all triples but the lutz (few skaters can say they have all consistent jump...so I canno't understand why we have to complain always about her) and has 3t3t..not the most difficult 3-3 but its value is higher than a 3lz2t...Plus she has maturity, quality in her skating, gorgeous program which help a lot...Honestly between a jumping machine without anything else and a mature woman skating even with less jump content I prefer the later one...That's senior ladies!

  13. #88
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    Top three ladies were way overscored at this event! Valentina's got almost 58 points with a clean skate when she never reached 55 AFAIR even with clean skates
    I thought Valentina looked much improved here, though it's hard to tell on a video. She needs better choreography, but she skated what she had very well.

  14. #89
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Denise Biellmann was also landing a clean triple lutz in 1981 as well as nice triple toe and salchow, and Carolina has won not 2 but 3 world medals (2005, 2008 and 2011).

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    I thought Valentina looked much improved here, though it's hard to tell on a video. She needs better choreography, but she skated what she had very well.
    I know...I have to say, I'm not a fan of her programs this year...but she skated well her short in a few competition including Europeans if I'm not wrong but she never reached that score, not even close..that's way I am saying that judges were quite generous yesterday! not only with carolina...

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