All things Russian

DianaSelene · Mar 2, 2012

Olympia said:
They were not my favorite couple, but they are certainly giants in the field. How could they not be in the Hall of Fame by now? The only ice dancers ever to win two Olympic golds, and they're not in? Who's asleep at the wheel on this one?

There are not a lot of Russian skaters/coaches in the hall of fame in general. Maybe it has to do with it being in the US?

Olympia · Mar 2, 2012

I haven't seen the list of who's in the HOF. I'll have to look it up before I react in more detail, but I hope you're wrong, DianaSelene. It would be awful if national prejudice or preference interfered with the honoring of great skating and coaching. Even if the selection committee is 100% American, if they're knowledgeable about skating, they owe it to the sport to induct the best from anywhere into the Hall of Fame. For goodness' sake, Russians and Soviets haven't just excelled in pairs and ice dancing, they developed or perfected many of the moves that everyone else adopted. For example, didn't Moskvina do the Biellmann spin before just about anyone else, in 1960 or thereabouts?

DianaSelene · Mar 2, 2012

Olympia said:
I haven't seen the list of who's in the HOF. I'll have to look it up before I react in more detail, but I hope you're wrong, DianaSelene. It would be awful if national prejudice or preference interfered with the honoring of great skating and coaching. Even if the selection committee is 100% American, if they're knowledgeable about skating, they owe it to the sport to induct the best from anywhere into the Hall of Fame. For goodness' sake, Russians and Soviets haven't just excelled in pairs and ice dancing, they developed or perfected many of the moves that everyone else adopted. For example, didn't Moskvina do the Biellmann spin before just about anyone else, in 1960 or thereabouts?

Here are two sites which have the list (one is wikipedia but it's good since it has the flag next to each name).

http://www.worldskatingmuseum.org/ushof.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Figure_Skating_Hall_of_Fame

The Russians are Belousova/Protopopov, Pakhomova/Gorshkov, Irina Rodnina, Gordeeva/Grinkov, Klimova/Ponomarenko, Moskvina, Tarasova, and Panin-Kolomenkin. I do believe there should be more (a lot more).

Some that I think should be added are Stanislav Zhuk (coached a bunch of pairs who were gold and silver medalists like Rodnina, Gordeeva/Grinkov and Elena Vodorezova who is now Buianova), Alexei Mishin (3 olympic golds?), Grishuk/Platov (the only dance pair to get 2 golds), Artur Dmitriev (2 time olympic gold medalist), Valova/Vasiliev, Usova/Zhulin.

Olympia · Mar 3, 2012

I certainly agree with you about Zhuk and Mishin, and Dmitriev. At least the Hall had the smarts to put in the Protopopovs, Rodnina, G/G, Klimova/Ponomarenko, and Moskvina and Tarasova, possibly skating's best coaches (except for Mishin, who should be in by now). I think Yagudin belongs in, but of course Plushy can't be in there until he retires.

Skater Boy · Mar 3, 2012

Is Maria Butyrskaya part of the honorees? Her story is quite impressive.

sky_fly20 · Mar 3, 2012

translated via google:

Skaters Davankova / Deputat plan to master the quad-twist

some I got from translations:

In summer they will be working on quad twists and perfect their four twist turns
they will not yet attempt a quad throw put will try a harder triple throw a flip or lutz

While the technique is more important than artistry
According to the skaters, they are at this stage of his career, basically, paying attention to technical, rather than the artistic side of skating
but will focus more on artistry in the coming seasons

http://www.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120302/582163164.html

clairecloutier · Mar 3, 2012

Buttercup said:
Neither S/S nor V/T are doing what I would describe as classically beautiful skating. S/S are innovative and interesting, and a lot of what they do is beautiful to me, but it's not a style that'll work for everyone. V/T are powerful, but if they are capable of a classic Russian style together, they have certainly not chosen the programs or the choreo to highlight it.

I agree with this totally . . . I think Volosozhar/Trankov are a great team, with amazing potential, but I would hardly call their programs this season "classically beautiful." Quite the contrary. I find them rather rough around the edges artistically, especially the short program. The long program is better, but certainly not what I'd consider classic Russian skating style, a la Gordeeva/Grinkov or Mishkuteniok/Dmitriev. I mean, the program is set to a movie soundtrack--hardly classic in any way! (Yes, it's got some excerpts from the original ballet, but it's not the same thing.)

What V/T do have is the classic Russian skating TECHNIQUE. They have all the speed, attack, unison, crispness that we associate with the best Russian pairs.

DianaSelene · Mar 3, 2012

Olympia said:
I certainly agree with you about Zhuk and Mishin, and Dmitriev. At least the Hall had the smarts to put in the Protopopovs, Rodnina, G/G, Klimova/Ponomarenko, and Moskvina and Tarasova, possibly skating's best coaches (except for Mishin, who should be in by now). I think Yagudin belongs in, but of course Plushy can't be in there until he retires.

Yes, I forgot about Yagudin. He was such an amazing skater and it has already been 10 years since his olympic gold.

raress · Mar 5, 2012

Этери Тутберидзе: «Не думаю, что сейчас Федерация поменяет Макарову на Шелепень»

Тренер Этери Тутберидзе после юниорского чемпионата мира призналась, что Федерация фигурного катания России (ФФКР), скорее всего, не включит ее спортсменку Полину Шелепень в состав на взрослый чемпионат мира.

«Я не думаю, честно говоря, что Федерация будет что-либо сейчас менять. Идеального проката не было. Полина заняла только шестое место, хотя дело не в этом. Мне сказали в Федерации, что будут смотреть прокат, а не место. А прокат был с «бабочкой» на лутце в короткой программе.

Она хорошо откатала произвольную программу, но особой радости у меня в «кисс-энд-край» не было. Потому что я понимала, что, к сожалению, этого недостаточно. Полина очень хорошо была готова к этим соревнованиям – и технически, и функционально. Должна была кататься чисто – и могла это сделать. Она знала, что ей не была поставлена задача занять какое-то место – а что поставлена задача кататься чисто, без оглядки на результат. Поэтому за лутц мне просто обидно», – цитирует Тутберидзе
here is an interview with Shelepen's coach if someone knows russian and can translate it will be great!..cuz google translated very bad.

dorispulaski · Mar 5, 2012

Just for kicks, here's the Babelfish translation, with some guesses. I am guessing that rental=tariff, which Europeans use for "score" more or less. I'm guessing "purely" = "cleanly". I know the "butterfly" is Russian for a popped jump. Lutts = Lutz.

I'm not sure what he really meant by "offensive" so I'm leaving it as Babelfish left it.

Eteri To Tutberidze: “

I do not think that now the federation changes to Makarov for Shelepen”

Trainer [Eteri] [Tutberidze] after Junior world championship acknowledged that the federation of figure skating of Russia ([FFKR]), will not most likely, include its sportswoman Polina Shelepen to the Senior world championship. “I do not think, honestly indicating that the federation will now change anything. There was no ideal score?? . Polina was only sixth place, although that is not the question. They said to me in the federation that they will look score??, but not place. But score was with “popped jump” on the lutz in the short program. It is good in the free program, but special happiness i into “the Kiss & Cry” did not have. Because I understood, which, unfortunately, this is insufficient. Polina was very well ready for these competitions - both technically, and healthwise. She had to perform, cleanly - and she could this make. She knew that it was not a problem of occupying some place - and that it was set the task of performing cleanly, without the caution to the result. Therefore for Lutz to me it is simply offensive”, cites Tutberidze

babayaga · Mar 5, 2012

This translation is almost accurate actually

My English is not perfect so please correct me if anything is wrong, but here is my attempt:

*************************************************************
Eteri Tutberidze: «I don't think that now our federation will replace Makarova with Shelepen»

The coach Eteri Tutberidze admitted after the junior world championship that RFSF will most likely not name Polina Shelepen to the World's team.

«Honestly, I don't think the federation is going to change anything now. We didn't show a clean performance. Polina only earned 6th place, however this is not even the main problem. I was told that the federation will be mainly looking at Polina's performance and not at the placement. But she popped a lutz in the short program.

She did well in the free program, but I wasn't that happy in K&C anyway. Because I knew that, unfortunately, that was not enough. Polina was very well prepared for this competition, both technically and healthwise. She had to skate cleanly and she was capable of doing that. She knew she didn't have to worry about the placement, she just needed to skate cleanly. That's why I was especially upset about the mistake on the lutz.»
***************************************************************

Something like that. I don't understand though why Tutberidze doesn't sound very supportive of her own student?

silverlake22 · Mar 5, 2012

^^ I don't think she's not being supportive, I think she is more just frustrated of Polina's tendency to shoot herself in the foot by skating flawed SPs that score low enough that even with a good FS she can't pull up enough to medal ( jw, nationals) or even when she does pull up to medal, the score is lower than what she is capable of and not as impressive despite her strong FS scores. We see that Polina is a very strong and consistent jumper from pretty much all the FS she performed this season. She can land her jumps, doing two 3-3s is not a problem for her, she has all the triples mastered, but for some reason in the SP she has trouble putting it together, and that must be frustrating for her coach who know what she is capable of. I mean, bombing SPs cost her a spot at Euros, would have cost her A spot at JW had Tukt not withdrawn, cost her a medal (or at least a finish above 6th) at JW, and now is likely costing her a spot at Worlds. And it has nothing to do with her skills.

DianaSelene · Mar 5, 2012

I think Tutberidze is just acknowledging that Shelepen skated poorly once again and she is disappointed. I doubt that she is not supportive. She just understands that the Russian figure skating federation might not want to send her because she did finish 6th at just junior worlds. So how poorly would she finish at seniors? What she has are the jumps, but she doesn't have great pcs to make up for mistakes.

Vash01 · Mar 6, 2012

DianaSelene said:
Yes, has anyone seen Totmianina skate with Khvalko before? Here's the video. At the beginning, you can see that she was supposed to skate with Ruslan Goncharov but he dropped her on a lift and she broke her lip and lost a tooth. So she teamed up with Khvalko instead. She needed many stitches and will have surgery soon. Poor Tanya, a second time?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfZp5l9RSJY&feature=channel_video_title

Goncharov is an ice dancer, not pairs skater. Why did she even try skating with him? Ice dancers are not used to lifting their partners over their heads the way pairs men are. Khvalko is a good choice; he and his partner used to do some amazing lifts. I still prefer Totmianina with Marinin though.

Vash01 · Mar 6, 2012

sky_fly20 said:
translated via google:

Skaters Davankova / Deputat plan to master the quad-twist

some I got from translations:

http://www.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120302/582163164.html

I hope they can avoid injuries if they are going to be working on quad throws. Quad lift may not be that risky, although it is tough to do. I don't feel it's even worth the risk, unless they believe they need that to compete against the Chinese who are obviously the judges favorites and COP does not reward artistry as much as the 6.0 system did.

Vash01 · Mar 6, 2012

Martiusheva-Rogonov are the most beautiful among the young pairs. I liked Iliushechkina-Maisuradze last year, but they had a tough season this year. Davankova-Deputat are wonderful. I just hope she survives puberty.

alithia · Mar 6, 2012

Vash01 said:
Goncharov is an ice dancer, not pairs skater. Why did she even try skating with him? Ice dancers are not used to lifting their partners over their heads the way pairs men are. Khvalko is a good choice; he and his partner used to do some amazing lifts. I still prefer Totmianina with Marinin though.

In the new Ice Age tv show,everybody has to change partners every week.So sometimes pair skaters end up with ice dancers...Goncharov fell with Navka at a lift too,they said something like he never did lifts in that direction even as a competitive skater.

sky_fly20 · Mar 6, 2012

Vash01 said:
I hope they can avoid injuries if they are going to be working on quad throws. Quad lift may not be that risky, although it is tough to do. I don't feel it's even worth the risk, unless they believe they need that to compete against the Chinese who are obviously the judges favorites and COP does not reward artistry as much as the 6.0 system did.

I think the are trying to compete against Sui/Han , and unfortunately you are right, pairs skating now is ugly and rewards more tricks than fine lines and over all skating they will need need quad throws and quad twists as soon it will be the standard for pairs in the future.

I do hope they get the quad throws , the sooner the better so she can practice them before Davankova hits puberty
D/D and M/R are the most interesting and talented of the younger pairs, I am happy Martiusheva can land her jumps now.
she is 16 now so chances are she has gotten a growth spurt. she looks like a lady now

mousepotato · Mar 6, 2012

sky_fly20 said:
I think the are trying to compete against Sui/Han , and unfortunately you are right, pairs skating now is ugly and rewards more tricks than fine lines and over all skating they will need need quad throws and quad twists as soon it will be the standard for pairs in the future.

I do hope they get the quad throws , the sooner the better so she can practice them before Davankova hits puberty
D/D and M/R are the most interesting and talented of the younger pairs, I am happy Martiusheva can land her jumps now.
she is 16 now so chances are she has gotten a growth spurt. she looks like a lady now

I doubt quads will be standard in the future, only a handful of pairs have ever done them and only a few with success. S/H can get away with it now because she is still small and judges look the other way and give them high marks. Once she grows, the quads will not work for his small frame. Other pairs can try them but that doesn't mean they will land them.

It's way too early to sing the praises of D/D, they are too new and may not even be together in a few years. I remember many young Russian juniors that never accomplished anything.

paircheck · Mar 7, 2012

eyria said:
I agree with this totally . . . I think Volosozhar/Trankov are a great team, with amazing potential, but I would hardly call their programs this season "classically beautiful." Quite the contrary. I find them rather rough around the edges artistically, especially the short program. The long program is better, but certainly not what I'd consider classic Russian skating style, a la Gordeeva/Grinkov or Mishkuteniok/Dmitriev. I mean, the program is set to a movie soundtrack--hardly classic in any way! (Yes, it's got some excerpts from the original ballet, but it's not the same thing.)

What V/T do have is the classic Russian skating TECHNIQUE. They have all the speed, attack, unison, crispness that we associate with the best Russian pairs.

V/T have great elements (3 twist, sbs sal, toe comb... ) but why do they skate with these theatrical gestics... look in trankovs face

:rofl:

All things Russian

DianaSelene

Olympia

DianaSelene

Olympia

Skater Boy

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

clairecloutier

DianaSelene

raress

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl

babayaga

silverlake22

DianaSelene

Vash01

Vash01

Vash01

alithia

sky_fly20

Match Penalty

mousepotato

paircheck

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