Figure skaters lend presence to North Korean event

[seniorita]

Generally, I'm gonna say there's a difference between skating a competition in a totalitarian country and skating at a festival for a dictator.

I agree. I didnt want to mean that, it is not the same yes. In the first post I wrote I said I wouldnt probably go, but I m not a skater, and me as seniorita I m not doing anything to make N.Korean people feel better about their dictator, so I dont like judging other people's action from my couch.

To connect with skating somehow, I read the skaters also hold seminars for the local skaters, so at least one good came out from their visit.

[CoyoteChris]

Here is one that I didn’t know about. In the 1936 games in Berlin the United States pulled the only two Jewish athletes from the team on the day of their race. I guess the USOC didn’t want to offend Hitler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic..._controversies

Good one.....wonder how much offending Jesse Owens did to the master race? It is interesting that African Americans and folks of Jewish faith weren't exactly held in high reguard in the US in 1936, either.
Extra points....what lady figure skater was accused of being a Nazi sympathizer?

[DianaSelene]

Good one.....wonder how much offending Jesse Owens did to the master race? It is interesting that African Americans and folks of Jewish faith weren't exactly held in high reguard in the US in 1936, either.
Extra points....what lady figure skater was accused of being a Nazi sympathizer?

According to wikipedia, Sonja Henie even did a Nazi salute to Hitler...

[Tonichelle]

According to wikipedia, Sonja Henie even did a Nazi salute to Hitler :

perhaps I'm playing devils advocate, but was she a Nazi sympathiser, or did she see the salute as teh same way one from another country still "salutes" the host country's leadership? You still curtsey when in the audience of The Queen, for example... You bow to dignitaries in Japan, tip your head to the president of the USA, etc... while the Nazi salute is now something you never ever want to do, is it really anything different? (just a little more... um.. noticable?)

[mikeko666]

As for Lepisto's part in it, she gets a pass from me, because as I said before, I don't expect anyone that young or that removed from current affairs to have everything figured out.

I don't think I was as ignorant as Lepisto when I was 23. It's good to be an elite figure skater, huh? Those elite skaters seem to live in a parallel world in which only figure skating matters, and all they care about is competitions and training. They travel all over the world, but they only see hotels, arenas and some tourist spots. Maybe they don't watch news. Those European skaters may be more aware of what's going on in Europe just because they live there, but practically have no interest in outside of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they are clueless about what's happening in Syria.

They traveled to North Korea just to please the regime that has been doing this to its people for quite some time, and received money from it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGR0BD2e1Ok

Of course, the invited skaters did not have to see starving people as Pyongyang is a city in which only the chosen are allowed to live, super-clean and artificial. Ignorance is bliss, indeed.

I guess Chan was telling truth when he said that he didn't know there were accusations of human rights violations against China.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskati...ut-canada.html

[Buttercup]

I don't think I was as ignorant as Lepisto when I was 23. It's good to be an elite figure skater, huh? Those elite skaters seem to live in a parallel world in which only figure skating matters, and all they care about is competitions and training. They travel all over the world, but they only see hotels, arenas and some tourist spots. Maybe they don't watch news. Those European skaters may be more aware of what's going on in Europe just because they live there, but practically have no interest in outside of it. I wouldn't be surprised if they are clueless about what's happening in Syria.

That is such a generalization. Quite a lot of skaters have interests and activities beyond skating, and many pursue academic studies parallel to their careers. We know very little about most skaters' lives outside the sport - mostly what's revealed in interviews and media profiles. Some skaters may have few interests outside the rink; others are intelligent, educated and knowledgeable about global event - and many probably fall somewhere in between. It may well be that the participating skaters consider these shows an opportunity to travel to a country that's not easy to visit and have as much interaction with its citizens as possible.

I'm not sure why skaters' knowledge (or lack thereof) regarding the events in Syria are relevant to this discussion.

Considering we still haven't heard from Laura directly, I'm not going to guess what her views and understanding of the situation in NK might be.

[mikeko666]

It may well be that the participating skaters consider these shows an opportunity to travel to a country that's not easy to visit and have as much interaction with its citizens as possible.

I'm not sure why skaters' knowledge (or lack thereof) regarding the events in Syria are relevant to this discussion.

Considering we still haven't heard from Laura directly, I'm not going to guess what her views and understanding of the situation in NK might be.

Lepisto has sold the exclusive right of her travel report to a magazine, hasn't she? Apparently, she thought it was a good business opportunity.

It sounds too naive to me if the skaters thought they could interact with "ordinary" citizens in Pyongyang. The NK government would have selected some model citizens for them, though.

I would love to know if they new NK's narcotics program (manufacturing and trafficking), too.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/MC18Dg02.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3igdk7pkEd4

[Spun Silver]

And now that I've posted twice here, I might as well say what I think about it: I find it unconscionable to take a heap of money from a man known for profligate spending on his own luxuries (one of which is the services provided for this payment) while his people endure mass starvation. Trying to dress this up as some remote, diplomatic, international and symbolic gesture just depersonalizes the real atrocity here. If it were a man known for buying himself expensive things while his children starve, a merchant who knows this but still tries to sell him jewelry would be scum. In the case of North Korea's Supreme Leader, if all the dealers, black market and otherwise, stopped indulging his expensive tastes, he would exploited his people less. Laura Lepisto, Tomas Verner, Shen/Zhao and Champions on Ice itself are all dealers. Shame on them all.

If you're going to shame the skaters, please be fair about it and don't exempt people who are actually current competitors like Pechalat/Bourzat and ... I still would like to know if it's Mae-Berenice I saw, or possibly even Surya? It didn't look like Yretha.

[dorispulaski]

Folks, this has gotten way too heated for the Edge.

I'm moving it to Politics, for those who would like to continue the discussion.

[gsk8]

....and please read the guidelines before posting insensitive information pertaining to religious groups.

[brightphoton]

Folks, this has gotten way too heated for the Edge.

I'm moving it to Politics, for those who would like to continue the discussion.

I have unapproved a number of posts for being too political. If any of you want to continue the political discussion, pm me and I will move the unapproved posts to Politics forum.

Since you've moved the entire topic to Politics, why have the unapproved political posts still unapproved?

[Tonichelle]

"While unmoderated, posters will still be held to the standards of the Forum Guidelines."

[dorispulaski]

Which guidelines are:

General Conduct

1. Abuse will not be tolerated.

....
Discrimination is posting comments that support or espouse hatred towards another individual or group based upon any criteria (including race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, beliefs, ethnicity, etc.).

[DianaSelene]

By the way, if someone actually reported my post when it obviously looked ironic even with the :sheesh: sign, they must either have poor English or reported it just because they felt like it. I will try to be careful next time. However, I would not say something like that in a serious way. Especially, that if I were serious, those words would have been hurtful to me in the first place since I am a minority myself. But I have received the warning and am saying that it was poor word choice from me.

[dorispulaski]

I think the problem was not English-the problem was that some people do not understand "emoticonic " very well.

For example, some people on the Asperger's spectrum are not good with irony or satire in the first place (yes, I am speaking from experience with people in my own family), and they don't read facial expression/body language very well either, so emoticons that don't have an understandable tag are not always properly understood. (what is a sheesh ????? I'm not sure. )

I am somewhere on the spectrum myself, although not as far out as my brother and one of his kids. To be sure I understand what an emoticon means, I let my cursor dwell over it to look at its tag. In the case of :sheesh: , after thinking a bit, I conclude, I guess this indicates irony but I am not quite sure.

on the other hand is completely understandable, because its tag is "confused". That I get right away.

And that's where and why misunderstandings arise.