Figure skaters lend presence to North Korean event
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
L
lowtherlore
Guest
Do you think the current US or the current S Korean administration has actively sought to bring N Korea to table? I see a totally different thing: N Korean leaders and the people WANT TO OPEN a la China, desperately. The prerequisite for them to open is a better relations with the US, and a peace treaty.
As Nadine said, this is a skating board. I won't go any more. But, I am realy curious about what you are. You are repeating exactly what N. Korean government claims.
Last edited:
Lepistö gave that press statement which is on the first page because people in Finland were angry that she skated at Kim Jong-Il's Birthday party. There were several articles of her visit in many newspapers and people and the press accused her of supporting Kim Jong-Il's dictatorship. People were writing on the Internet that she is greedy and call the money that she received as blood money.
Here is an example of those articles: http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/news/in...ews/politics/1410-sk-why-skate-in-north-korea
The press is still writing articles of her visit just google her name and there is plenty of opinions...
I think this incident stained her good reputation at least among some people in Finland.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
Well, I guess the fee offered was SO exorbitant that it made Lepisto and her Federation forget to think until it was too late. It's disappointing to know that, but I feel sorry for her because she wasn't the only one that went.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
It is sad Lepisto is the scapegoat, as someone said did N Korea people starved more because she skated there? It seems from other federations skaters go frequently and there is not such a fuss.
I have to admit both last year Yags and this year Plush quotes about the show >>*facepalm*, since they are young people with some sort of brain, but I probably have to accept that Russia is another planet. The attack on Tomas was also uncalled for. In the whole big picture we do support many things either by ignorance or by not caring, all the Nike shoes are made in India, China, Taiwan, something I should defenitely boycot since we all pretty much know under which circumstances these factories work ..and I dont. And the list is endless.
I have to admit both last year Yags and this year Plush quotes about the show >>*facepalm*, since they are young people with some sort of brain, but I probably have to accept that Russia is another planet. The attack on Tomas was also uncalled for. In the whole big picture we do support many things either by ignorance or by not caring, all the Nike shoes are made in India, China, Taiwan, something I should defenitely boycot since we all pretty much know under which circumstances these factories work ..and I dont. And the list is endless.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Huh? The orchestra concert was a step toward better relations because it was "justified" by the United States government. But a skating show is a step backward because it was not ballyhooed by government propaganda?
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2009
That's the idea. With the New York Philharmonic, someone working there had a brain and realized going to North Korea would look like a very bad thing, and to do it without explanation would make everyone involved look very bad. So they showed us, with wide media coverage and interviews that indeed, the New York Philharmonic had given the politics of this a lot of thought. It supposedly could be used show the world a bit of North Korea, as seen by interviews with people who played in the orchestra. The media coverage was extensive at the time: articles in the newspapers, and even today you can find videos on NYP website and PBS, and yes, Youtube.
This skating show was not publicized, no one outside of some small select group of North Koreans knew about it, interviews afterward show that no one in the skating show gave any of this an iota of thought except for the money. When asked about their motivations, they offered a snarky half-apology: I'm so sorry that YOU are upset over this, I don't know why YOU have a problem with us being paid lots of money to perform for a dictatorship, I hope YOU will get over this soon.
I agree that no skaters should be singled out. For one thing, they can't turn the tide all by themselves. We certainly shouldn't act as if Lepisto has committed some kind of sin. The sin is all on the part of the North Korean government, if we may call such a despotic system by that name. It can more correctly be termed the personal fiefdom and treasury of the ruling dynasty and their henchmen. But I do believe that the issue should be discussed. We can't come up with answers, but I think we can at least attempt to come up with questions.
As Mathman says, it's tricky ethically because it's desirable to engage an isolated country and give it an incentive to join the world community. A lot of the overtures toward North Korea remind me of events in the recent history of international relations with China, from the visit of violinist Isaac Stern and various athletes to the first Chinese mounting of the play Death of a Salesman, personally overseen by Arthur Miller, its creator. (The star, Ying Ruocheng, was a marvelous actor who was fluent in English and had played Kublai Khan in the international production of Marco Polo some years earlier.) Obviously it's desirable to try to open a place up with "international languages" such as music and sport. When the New York Philharmonic went to North Korea (and played both Gershwin and "Arirang"), they were aware that they could reach only a selected audience, but they went with the hope that they were the start of greater interaction. Maybe the skating is that as well, but one should ask certain questions about the situation in any case. Questioning is not the same as accusing.
The world is a complex place, these days more so than ever because all of us in one way or another deals with entities who are unsavory. What do we wear on our feet? What do we type on to communicate with friends and family? What do we eat? Many of the raw materials or foods we heedlessly use every day are either sold by repressive governments or harvested or manufactured by slave labor. Should we go back to subsistence farming and use only local products so as to maintain our individual purity? Most of us can't do that. Even the Amish wear polyester. But we need to think about what we can do to inch ourselves forward to more enlightened times. That's what makes these questions valid.
I'm glad we changed the name of the thread. Lepisto doesn't deserve to be the poster girl for North Korean repression.
As Mathman says, it's tricky ethically because it's desirable to engage an isolated country and give it an incentive to join the world community. A lot of the overtures toward North Korea remind me of events in the recent history of international relations with China, from the visit of violinist Isaac Stern and various athletes to the first Chinese mounting of the play Death of a Salesman, personally overseen by Arthur Miller, its creator. (The star, Ying Ruocheng, was a marvelous actor who was fluent in English and had played Kublai Khan in the international production of Marco Polo some years earlier.) Obviously it's desirable to try to open a place up with "international languages" such as music and sport. When the New York Philharmonic went to North Korea (and played both Gershwin and "Arirang"), they were aware that they could reach only a selected audience, but they went with the hope that they were the start of greater interaction. Maybe the skating is that as well, but one should ask certain questions about the situation in any case. Questioning is not the same as accusing.
The world is a complex place, these days more so than ever because all of us in one way or another deals with entities who are unsavory. What do we wear on our feet? What do we type on to communicate with friends and family? What do we eat? Many of the raw materials or foods we heedlessly use every day are either sold by repressive governments or harvested or manufactured by slave labor. Should we go back to subsistence farming and use only local products so as to maintain our individual purity? Most of us can't do that. Even the Amish wear polyester. But we need to think about what we can do to inch ourselves forward to more enlightened times. That's what makes these questions valid.
I'm glad we changed the name of the thread. Lepisto doesn't deserve to be the poster girl for North Korean repression.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
It's because the Czech republic with Tomas and Finland with Laura are easier targets for bullying than those French, not saying abour Russian. I still don't get how P/B could enter NK last year and this year under French passports if these two countries don't have diplomatic relationships. And you see, nobody dare to punch them for that. Not in media, not in the net.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
Kim Jong-il's doctors were always French. Also his wife's. They must have some kind of a strange pact.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...eurosurgeon-secretly-treated-Kim-Jong-il.html
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
Okay, I'll take your word for that. Then why Japanese media didn't bully Japan-born Yuka for skating in NK last year? Or a bunch of performers who went there with shows? Oh, wait. I think I have answered my question myself. Japan and NK also don't have diplomatic relationships. But Japanese nationals more than once entered the country either for shows or sport events. So, it's not French only. Still neither French nor Japanese get bullied. Why Czech, why Finnish? They are just too small and easy targets I think.
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
I just gave you a link from Daily Telegraph about a French neurosurgeon treating Kim Jong-il because you wondered how the French skaters got in, and I surmised that given the Kim family had a special relationship with French doctor(s) (I guess I didn't provide a link to prove that his wife was also treated by French doctors so you don't have to take my word for it), there must be some sort of a secret relation between the two countries that would enable them to get in. My post was not meant to deny that Finns and Czechs were marked out because they were smaller countries.
Re: the 'Japan-born Yuka' you mention, what's her full name?
I think it's because Finnish media and people in general are very aware of what goes on in the world and politics. Human rights and things like that are very important here. I think if a Swedish skater had gone, same would have happened in Sweden. Plus Laura is very famous here.
This link was posted at FSU - it includes video of part of Laura Lepistö's performance to Dr. Zhivago in North Korea: http://www.aamulehti.fi/Ulkomaat/11...ter+fell+north+korean+audience+applauded.html
I assume it's Yuko Kawaguchi (of Kawaguchi/Smirnov).
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
Yuko Kawaguchi, 川口悠子, a Japan-born fskater. Became Kavaguti after she obtained a Russian passport to skate with Smirnov in Vancouver.
About French, I don't think there is some secret pact is going on. As I said Japan and NK also don't have diplomatic relationship but Japanese nationals entered the country due to various reasons (soccer events, shows, etc.)
Aahh.. Japanese, French and Russian media and people are not aware. That helps.
Btw, for those who are interested, the full show is on youtube. The country turned out to be not so secret and mysterious afterall: www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3j3HOJF66Q (Plush at 9:20)
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
Oh, I see. So I guess she went as part of the Russian figure skating envoy. No, I never heard about it in Japan and no one made a fuss. If they heard about it, I guess they might react in the same way I do, which is to say that Yuko Kawaguchi is a pretty wild girl for moving to Russia just to figure skate in the first place, and if she went as part of the Russian envoy, well, the Russian Federation is pretty nuts.
I think if she had gone as a 'Japanese' person and it was the Japanese Federation that had approved it, it would be denounced.
But Japan is rather different from European countries in that there is already a ship called Manbongyo that shuttles back and forth between Japan and N. Korea 20-30 times a year. According to brief net research I just did, there are 600,000 Korean Residents living in Japan at the moment, a chunk of which see themselves as North Koreans. And it's mostly these people who take these journeys to visit their relatives now living in N. Korea. They know their relatives don't have enough of anything so they take boxes and boxes of food/toilet paper/pencil/other daily articles with them on these visits. So there is humanitarian justification for this. On the other hand, it's known that spys use this method to enter Japan, and as I said, Japanese people have been known to be randomly kidnapped and forced to work in N. Korea so it's like ***. Also, I believe it is known that North Koreans come to steal cars and electric appliances and cash and they take it back on Manbongyo. Another problem is that N. Korean officials often go abroad because they need to launder money (they've stolen) and some of that's done in Japan I guess so again, Manbongyo is providing N. Koreans with the method to kidnap, steal and launder money in Japan so it's all very controversial. Still, this passage has continued to be allowed by the Japanese government so that the hundreds of thousands of N. Korean residents living in Japan will have the means to visit their homeland and relatives.
It's a very complex situation and requires many hours of explanation to understand why it's like this.
Last edited:
Here is a new Finnish article of the propaganda and the skaters:
http://translate.google.com/transla...ean-kohufestivaaleilta/art-1288450609969.html
http://translate.google.com/transla...ean-kohufestivaaleilta/art-1288450609969.html
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
Nobody made a secret about her appearance in NK in Japan. Are you Japanese? If you are, you are the first J-person in my experience who is badmouthing about Yuko and her career choices. I could tell you more but I lost the interest.
