junior men - Short Program | Page 3 | Golden Skate

junior men - Short Program

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
About Jason putting out the 3-axel -- he has been practicing the jump. I hope he will put it out when he and his coach feel he is consistent enough to be successful. If not this season, then next season is soon enough IMO. He is after all, only 17 years old. IMO, I don't think it is at all healthy for still maturing young skaters to go gung ho with trying to land quads, and putting too much pressure on themselves physically and psychologically in training 3-axel either or putting it out when the skater is not ready. So what if it takes a skater like Brown more time to land the 3-axel (Chan was not quite ready at ages 16 and 17 either but felt pressure to put out the 3-axel and he has had consistency and technique problems with it). At this point, I would wait until next season, unless Jason and his coach feel it is worth it to try the 3-axel in the fs at Jr. Worlds to be more competitive (as long as the injury to his ankle is healed).

I also think that Jason, Joshua and Denis have better execution and presentation skills than Han Yan, although Yan is quite talented too (he doesn’t interpret the music well).

Good points. I think Jason will do 3a when he is ready. For right now, he is doing very well without it, and against a steep field too! As for Yan, he is impressive but I think he is just a very different type of skater from the likes of Farris, Ten and Brown, who are all very elegant. The skating of Ten and Farris could even be described as ethereal. Jason is dynamic but still manages to be artistic. Yan is a more athletic type of skater. His components are so high likely because of his speed and attack. I agree his musicality could be improved, and his lines also need work (his arms are often bent and a bit flail-y). But his huge jumps and the speed he generates cannot be ignored and give his skating a bold, impressive quality, so I understand the marks. He is very strong in the footwork as well. For some reason, he reminds me of Takahashi. Hopefully that means he has a bright future ahead of him.

Now that videos are out I must say I'm really impressed with the 3 Americans. The future of US men's figure skating is in good hands. Joshua and Jason are just incredible and I really enjoyed that program from Dolensky and think he could have a bright future if he can get a 3a.
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Oh, and I hope Shoma will make the top10!

Now a podium finish seemd unlikely for Japanese boys, I hope they will regroup in the Free, and each boy will have a good performance that he feels satisfied with and be proud of.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Oh, and I hope Shoma will make the top10!

Now a podium finish seemd unlikely for Japanese boys, I hope they will regroup in the Free, and each boy will have a good performance that he feels satisfied with and be proud of.

Shoma is the cutest thing I have ever seen. He looks even smaller than Nathan Chen and he is soo spirited in his performance! Super fun to watch. I assume he is 13?
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Shoma is the cutest thing I have ever seen. He looks even smaller than Nathan Chen and he is soo spirited in his performance! Super fun to watch. I assume he is 13?

He turned 14yo last December. He is cute, isn't he?

I love his speed; like a small fireball! I also like his performance ability.
He reminds me a lot of young Daisuke.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Good points. I think Jason will do 3a when he is ready. For right now, he is doing very well without it, and against a steep field too! As for Yan, he is impressive but I think he is just a very different type of skater from the likes of Farris, Ten and Brown, who are all very elegant. The skating of Ten and Farris could even be described as ethereal. Jason is dynamic but still manages to be artistic. Yan is a more athletic type of skater. His components are so high likely because of his speed and attack. I agree his musicality could be improved, and his lines also need work (his arms are often bent and a bit flail-y). But his huge jumps and the speed he generates cannot be ignored and give his skating a bold, impressive quality, so I understand the marks. He is very strong in the footwork as well. For some reason, he reminds me of Takahashi. Hopefully that means he has a bright future ahead of him.

Now that videos are out I must say I'm really impressed with the 3 Americans. The future of US men's figure skating is in good hands. Joshua and Jason are just incredible and I really enjoyed that program from Dolensky and think he could have a bright future if he can get a 3a.

Your points are very well taken too! Yes, definitely Yan is a more athletic skater with much potential to develop his artistic side -- I agree. He will have to improve A LOT artistically to be equated with Takahashi, and Dai did not develop that side until a year or so after turning senior. Even then, Dai Taka has continued to push the envelope artistically and choreographically. I think Dai and Jeremy are best overall at their best, even tho' the judges give more cred to Chan with his speed and blades, despite the fact Chan is really not the best at interpreting the music.

Jason is definitely dynamic, charismatic and he beautifully interprets the music. He's amazing.
 

McIce

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Your points are very well taken too! Yes, definitely Yan is a more athletic skater with much potential to develop his artistic side -- I agree. He will have to improve A LOT artistically to be equated with Takahashi, and Dai did not develop that side until a year or so after turning senior. Even then, Dai Taka has continued to push the envelope artistically and choreographically. I think Dai and Jeremy are best overall at their best, even tho' the judges give more cred to Chan with his speed and blades, despite the fact Chan is really not the best at interpreting the music.

Jason is definitely dynamic, charismatic and he beautifully interprets the music. He's amazing.

That's exactly what I want to say. Yan has great skating skill which is not that commonly seen in junior. IMO, his SS is superior to Farris, Ten and Brown. This will definitely serve him much better in the future. With great speed and edge control, your jumps will be more consistent and high quality which is displayed in Yan's programs.

I can see he goes the route of Chan. At 15, Chan didn't show that great musicality either. Actually Yan himself said he likes Chan a lot. His favorite practice part is skating skill and edge training. He said he actually doesn't like jumps that much...
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
That's exactly what I want to say. Yan has great skating skill which is not that commonly seen in junior. IMO, his SS is superior to Farris, Ten and Brown. This will definitely serve him much better in the future. With great speed and edge control, your jumps will be more consistent and high quality which is displayed in Yan's programs.

I can see he goes the route of Chan. At 15, Chan didn't show that great musicality either. Actually Yan himself said he likes Chan a lot. His favorite practice part is skating skill and edge training. He said he actually doesn't like jumps that much...

I don't know if Yan will end up like Chan, but he certainly is talented. Actually, the top 4 are all really, really impressive and each with his own unique style. I guess that would be assumed at a World Championship, but I mean even more than usual. I could see Jason and Josh making the Olympic team in 2014, of course 2018 is probably more likely, but I think both have the potential to overtake the likes of Rippon, Miner, Dornbush, Mahbanoozadeh, etc, all of whom are very talented themselves, but these two have something "extra" for me, idk what. Actually, they both remind me a bit of Lysacek, in different ways though obviously.

Also did Josh Farris grow a lot recently? He looks very tall and slender in his SP video, maybe it's just the camera the video was made on but I don't remember him being so long-limbed before..

Han Yan has oodles of potential and to think he's just 16 (well not even, birthday is very soon though), lots of possibilities with this kid. Big jumps, and could get even bigger when/if he grows and fills out more. I think the artistry will come with time.

Denis has great technique and thank goodness he seems to have conquered the demons of last season. His jumps are amazing when on and he has a lovely classical style. Last year, I think his programs were too Lysacek-eque, but this season, I really like both of them.
 

deedee1

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
As for Denis' programs this season, I can see a lot of Lambiel-sque movements.
When he came to the scene a few years ago, I did not expect him to become a skater with such an elegent style.

I want Denis to continue to work with Stephane till Sochi. Really look forward to seeing how he will mature as skater in two years!
 

Gliding on ice

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 11, 2011
I can see he goes the route of Chan. At 15, Chan didn't show that great musicality either. Actually Yan himself said he likes Chan a lot. His favorite practice part is skating skill and edge training. He said he actually doesn't like jumps that much...

I think Yan enjoys jumps as much as he does with SS/edge training. He may not like spins that much, although he used to be quite a strong spinner.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
D Ten's short program is a dream. His classic elegance goes so well with that Russian pathos in the music. I haven't really looked at the levels, but I would have had him first just by watching these programs, which he probably would've been if he skated later in the final group. By far the most mature performance and the most command.
He really represents what I think the quintessential Russian male skater should be like. So much better than all of Bush, Dmitriev, Voronov etc combined. I find it kind of ironic that Denis came from the Russian school of figure skating, because by now Russia probably WISHES they had a singles man like Denis.
 
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McIce

Rinkside
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
I don't know if Yan will end up like Chan, but he certainly is talented. Actually, the top 4 are all really, really impressive and each with his own unique style. I guess that would be assumed at a World Championship, but I mean even more than usual. I could see Jason and Josh making the Olympic team in 2014, of course 2018 is probably more likely, but I think both have the potential to overtake the likes of Rippon, Miner, Dornbush, Mahbanoozadeh, etc, all of whom are very talented themselves, but these two have something "extra" for me, idk what. Actually, they both remind me a bit of Lysacek, in different ways though obviously.

Also did Josh Farris grow a lot recently? He looks very tall and slender in his SP video, maybe it's just the camera the video was made on but I don't remember him being so long-limbed before..

Han Yan has oodles of potential and to think he's just 16 (well not even, birthday is very soon though), lots of possibilities with this kid. Big jumps, and could get even bigger when/if he grows and fills out more. I think the artistry will come with time.

Denis has great technique and thank goodness he seems to have conquered the demons of last season. His jumps are amazing when on and he has a lovely classical style. Last year, I think his programs were too Lysacek-eque, but this season, I really like both of them.

US has a very deep junior pool especially on men side. I can see Brown grows to something special IF he can get at least consistent 3A. His charisma and movement definitely have more PCS potential than Farris.

The biggest problem with Yan is choreography. His sp is painfully dull. It just doesn't give a skater any room to express. If next season he can get some great choreographer, hopefully he will have some improvement on interpretation and transition difficulty. Honestly, I don't like his arm movements.

Denis really improves a lot this season. His jumps become much more consistent this year. Hopefully he can master 4t which is almost like a requirement for current senior. What surprises me the most is that he has a more mature style this season thanks to Stephane.
 
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sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
like I said, its only a matter of time before Brown gets his 3A
and I agree Brown has the long term potential and is the all around skater and not Farris

D Ten's short program is a dream. His classic elegance goes so well with that Russian pathos in the music. I haven't really looked at the levels, but I would have had him first just by watching these programs, which he probably would've been if he skated later in the final group. By far the most mature performance and the most command.
He really represents what I think the quintessential Russian male skater should be like. So much better than all of Bush, Dmitriev, Voronov etc combined. I find it kind of ironic that Denis came from the Russian school of figure skating, because by now Russia probably WISHES they had a singles man like Denis.

this. :laugh:
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Welcome to Golden Skate, Gliding on Ice and McIce! We hope you post long and often!
 

babyskate

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Does anyone have a listing of the schedule for the rest of the competition? I like many others is excited to see Jason Brown's LP. To me he is the most entertaining of the US mens field and I thoroughly enjoy his programs even without the 3A. With his work ethic and smart coaching he will get it soon. (I like the UPS delivery line though)
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
US has a very deep junior pool especially on men side. I can see Brown grows to something special IF he can get at least consistent 3A. His charisma and movement definitely have more PCS potential than Farris.

The biggest problem with Yan is choreography. His sp is painfully dull. It just doesn't give a skater any room to express. If next season he can get some great choreographer, hopefully he will have some improvement on interpretation and transition difficulty. Honestly, I don't like his arm movements.

Denis really improves a lot this season. His jumps become much more consistent this year. Hopefully he can master 4t which is almost like a requirement for current senior. What surprises me the most is that he has a more mature style this season thanks to Stephane.

I actually like Yan's SP, I think it is choreographically stronger than his FS, but maybe I just like the style of that program better.

I think Brown and Farris both have potential for very high PCS and future success in the US. Jason obviously stands out because he is such a performer, but Josh is really impressive too, his style is just more understated elegance so I think he flies under the rader more; his footwork and glide of edges is certainly very impressive. In a lot of ways Farris is like Lysacek, with a much better 3a. Very strong spinner, good flexibility, and artistic but in a classical straightforward way, while still portraying a masculine image on the ice. Brown is similar to Weir in his very distinct style and intense expression. As far as I can tell, they both have more personality than Miner, better jumps than Rippon, smoother packaging than Dornbush, and skating that leaves a stronger impact than that of Mahbanoozadeh. So, if they keep up the good work, I could see them on team Sochi.

Also, I did not know about Denis working with Lambiel, but now I can totally see the influence. Stephane did a good job with him, Ten has always been a talented technician, but I feel this season he has started to really come into his own stylistically. His FS I especially like, particularly when he really projects and performs it in a big way, like he did at Skate Canada.
 
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Macassar88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 21, 2011
US has a very deep junior pool especially on men side. I can see Brown grows to something special IF he can get at least consistent 3A. His charisma and movement definitely have more PCS potential than Farris.

The biggest problem with Yan is choreography. His sp is painfully dull. It just doesn't give a skater any room to express. If next season he can get some great choreographer, hopefully he will have some improvement on interpretation and transition difficulty. Honestly, I don't like his arm movements.

Denis really improves a lot this season. His jumps become much more consistent this year. Hopefully he can master 4t which is almost like a requirement for current senior. What surprises me the most is that he has a more mature style this season thanks to Stephane.
If Han can win junior worlds, he'll likely get better choreo next year as most choreographers won't spend as much time with unknown skaters as they would with up and coming or well established skaters.
 

Art&Sport

Medalist
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
I don't know if Yan will end up like Chan, but he certainly is talented. Actually, the top 4 are all really, really impressive and each with his own unique style. I guess that would be assumed at a World Championship, but I mean even more than usual. I could see Jason and Josh making the Olympic team in 2014, of course 2018 is probably more likely, but I think both have the potential to overtake the likes of Rippon, Miner, Dornbush, Mahbanoozadeh, etc, all of whom are very talented themselves, but these two have something "extra" for me, idk what. Actually, they both remind me a bit of Lysacek, in different ways though obviously.
...

Joshua and Jason both have very different styles, and to me, neither of them are reminiscent of Lysacek (other than Josh having similar height and long legs -- and Jason hailing from the Chicago area a la Evan). Certainly Josh's romantic, lyrical sp skate to Clair de Lune is much more reminiscent of Johnny Weir's smooth, lyrical style of skating than that of Lysacek. Evan will always be known for his competitiveness and determination, but he always skated over his music. Actually, the dramatic music of Evan's Olympic programs helped mask his weak interpretive skills. Jason is a very unique skater, not really like anyone else, IMO. Jason has charisma, flair, and a very distinctive ability to engage with his music in an exciting way.

Han Yan definitely has great technique which should serve him well, especially if he is able to combine his technique and athleticism with great music and improved artistry and presentation.

I was surprised to see Denis at Juniors, but I forget that he came on the senior scene at a young age.

It will definitely be interesting to see what happens in the U.S. senior men's ranks over the next few years. It's very unfortunate that great skaters get passed over simply b/c their countries can only send 2 or 3 skaters to Worlds.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I know, it's unfortunate that some countries have such a wealth of talent that some really strong skaters won't get much international exposure due to their simply being not enough spots. USA, Japan, and now Russia in particular have this problem. But I think the talent and potential of Jason and Josh is high enough that, if they keep progressing the way they are, they have a realistic shot at being one of those select few to represent the US at competitions like Worlds, the Olympics, etc. Yan and Ten are also great talents. If the top 4 men were to all go and skate cleanly in their FSs, I'd expect the total scores to be around 220, maybe even 230 . If it turns out that way that would truly be something, b/c usually JW is won with a score in the low 200s. But they are really that talented and capable of such numbers.
 

Bluebonnet

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Does anyone think Joshua Ferris is a bit like young Jeremy Abbott? I think Ferris has a bright future. He is technically sound and artistically sufficiant. I'm looking forward to seeing him in seniors. Han Yan is very technical. I agree that he has a lot to improve in artistry and music interpretation. But I believe he'll get there. Jason Brown is sooo slowww!
 
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