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Thread: junior men - Short Program

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art&Sport View Post
    Your points are very well taken too! Yes, definitely Yan is a more athletic skater with much potential to develop his artistic side -- I agree. He will have to improve A LOT artistically to be equated with Takahashi, and Dai did not develop that side until a year or so after turning senior. Even then, Dai Taka has continued to push the envelope artistically and choreographically. I think Dai and Jeremy are best overall at their best, even tho' the judges give more cred to Chan with his speed and blades, despite the fact Chan is really not the best at interpreting the music.

    Jason is definitely dynamic, charismatic and he beautifully interprets the music. He's amazing.
    That's exactly what I want to say. Yan has great skating skill which is not that commonly seen in junior. IMO, his SS is superior to Farris, Ten and Brown. This will definitely serve him much better in the future. With great speed and edge control, your jumps will be more consistent and high quality which is displayed in Yan's programs.

    I can see he goes the route of Chan. At 15, Chan didn't show that great musicality either. Actually Yan himself said he likes Chan a lot. His favorite practice part is skating skill and edge training. He said he actually doesn't like jumps that much...

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by McIce View Post
    That's exactly what I want to say. Yan has great skating skill which is not that commonly seen in junior. IMO, his SS is superior to Farris, Ten and Brown. This will definitely serve him much better in the future. With great speed and edge control, your jumps will be more consistent and high quality which is displayed in Yan's programs.

    I can see he goes the route of Chan. At 15, Chan didn't show that great musicality either. Actually Yan himself said he likes Chan a lot. His favorite practice part is skating skill and edge training. He said he actually doesn't like jumps that much...
    I don't know if Yan will end up like Chan, but he certainly is talented. Actually, the top 4 are all really, really impressive and each with his own unique style. I guess that would be assumed at a World Championship, but I mean even more than usual. I could see Jason and Josh making the Olympic team in 2014, of course 2018 is probably more likely, but I think both have the potential to overtake the likes of Rippon, Miner, Dornbush, Mahbanoozadeh, etc, all of whom are very talented themselves, but these two have something "extra" for me, idk what. Actually, they both remind me a bit of Lysacek, in different ways though obviously.

    Also did Josh Farris grow a lot recently? He looks very tall and slender in his SP video, maybe it's just the camera the video was made on but I don't remember him being so long-limbed before..

    Han Yan has oodles of potential and to think he's just 16 (well not even, birthday is very soon though), lots of possibilities with this kid. Big jumps, and could get even bigger when/if he grows and fills out more. I think the artistry will come with time.

    Denis has great technique and thank goodness he seems to have conquered the demons of last season. His jumps are amazing when on and he has a lovely classical style. Last year, I think his programs were too Lysacek-eque, but this season, I really like both of them.

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    As for Denis' programs this season, I can see a lot of Lambiel-sque movements.
    When he came to the scene a few years ago, I did not expect him to become a skater with such an elegent style.

    I want Denis to continue to work with Stephane till Sochi. Really look forward to seeing how he will mature as skater in two years!

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by McIce View Post
    I can see he goes the route of Chan. At 15, Chan didn't show that great musicality either. Actually Yan himself said he likes Chan a lot. His favorite practice part is skating skill and edge training. He said he actually doesn't like jumps that much...
    I think Yan enjoys jumps as much as he does with SS/edge training. He may not like spins that much, although he used to be quite a strong spinner.

  5. #50
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    D Ten's short program is a dream. His classic elegance goes so well with that Russian pathos in the music. I haven't really looked at the levels, but I would have had him first just by watching these programs, which he probably would've been if he skated later in the final group. By far the most mature performance and the most command.
    He really represents what I think the quintessential Russian male skater should be like. So much better than all of Bush, Dmitriev, Voronov etc combined. I find it kind of ironic that Denis came from the Russian school of figure skating, because by now Russia probably WISHES they had a singles man like Denis.
    Last edited by shine; 03-02-2012 at 12:44 AM.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I don't know if Yan will end up like Chan, but he certainly is talented. Actually, the top 4 are all really, really impressive and each with his own unique style. I guess that would be assumed at a World Championship, but I mean even more than usual. I could see Jason and Josh making the Olympic team in 2014, of course 2018 is probably more likely, but I think both have the potential to overtake the likes of Rippon, Miner, Dornbush, Mahbanoozadeh, etc, all of whom are very talented themselves, but these two have something "extra" for me, idk what. Actually, they both remind me a bit of Lysacek, in different ways though obviously.

    Also did Josh Farris grow a lot recently? He looks very tall and slender in his SP video, maybe it's just the camera the video was made on but I don't remember him being so long-limbed before..

    Han Yan has oodles of potential and to think he's just 16 (well not even, birthday is very soon though), lots of possibilities with this kid. Big jumps, and could get even bigger when/if he grows and fills out more. I think the artistry will come with time.

    Denis has great technique and thank goodness he seems to have conquered the demons of last season. His jumps are amazing when on and he has a lovely classical style. Last year, I think his programs were too Lysacek-eque, but this season, I really like both of them.
    US has a very deep junior pool especially on men side. I can see Brown grows to something special IF he can get at least consistent 3A. His charisma and movement definitely have more PCS potential than Farris.

    The biggest problem with Yan is choreography. His sp is painfully dull. It just doesn't give a skater any room to express. If next season he can get some great choreographer, hopefully he will have some improvement on interpretation and transition difficulty. Honestly, I don't like his arm movements.

    Denis really improves a lot this season. His jumps become much more consistent this year. Hopefully he can master 4t which is almost like a requirement for current senior. What surprises me the most is that he has a more mature style this season thanks to Stephane.
    Last edited by McIce; 03-02-2012 at 01:32 AM.

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    like I said, its only a matter of time before Brown gets his 3A
    and I agree Brown has the long term potential and is the all around skater and not Farris

    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    D Ten's short program is a dream. His classic elegance goes so well with that Russian pathos in the music. I haven't really looked at the levels, but I would have had him first just by watching these programs, which he probably would've been if he skated later in the final group. By far the most mature performance and the most command.
    He really represents what I think the quintessential Russian male skater should be like. So much better than all of Bush, Dmitriev, Voronov etc combined. I find it kind of ironic that Denis came from the Russian school of figure skating, because by now Russia probably WISHES they had a singles man like Denis.
    this.

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    Welcome to Golden Skate, Gliding on Ice and McIce! We hope you post long and often!

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    Does anyone have a listing of the schedule for the rest of the competition? I like many others is excited to see Jason Brown's LP. To me he is the most entertaining of the US mens field and I thoroughly enjoy his programs even without the 3A. With his work ethic and smart coaching he will get it soon. (I like the UPS delivery line though)

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    Quote Originally Posted by McIce View Post
    US has a very deep junior pool especially on men side. I can see Brown grows to something special IF he can get at least consistent 3A. His charisma and movement definitely have more PCS potential than Farris.

    The biggest problem with Yan is choreography. His sp is painfully dull. It just doesn't give a skater any room to express. If next season he can get some great choreographer, hopefully he will have some improvement on interpretation and transition difficulty. Honestly, I don't like his arm movements.

    Denis really improves a lot this season. His jumps become much more consistent this year. Hopefully he can master 4t which is almost like a requirement for current senior. What surprises me the most is that he has a more mature style this season thanks to Stephane.
    I actually like Yan's SP, I think it is choreographically stronger than his FS, but maybe I just like the style of that program better.

    I think Brown and Farris both have potential for very high PCS and future success in the US. Jason obviously stands out because he is such a performer, but Josh is really impressive too, his style is just more understated elegance so I think he flies under the rader more; his footwork and glide of edges is certainly very impressive. In a lot of ways Farris is like Lysacek, with a much better 3a. Very strong spinner, good flexibility, and artistic but in a classical straightforward way, while still portraying a masculine image on the ice. Brown is similar to Weir in his very distinct style and intense expression. As far as I can tell, they both have more personality than Miner, better jumps than Rippon, smoother packaging than Dornbush, and skating that leaves a stronger impact than that of Mahbanoozadeh. So, if they keep up the good work, I could see them on team Sochi.

    Also, I did not know about Denis working with Lambiel, but now I can totally see the influence. Stephane did a good job with him, Ten has always been a talented technician, but I feel this season he has started to really come into his own stylistically. His FS I especially like, particularly when he really projects and performs it in a big way, like he did at Skate Canada.
    Last edited by silverlake22; 03-02-2012 at 09:55 AM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by McIce View Post
    US has a very deep junior pool especially on men side. I can see Brown grows to something special IF he can get at least consistent 3A. His charisma and movement definitely have more PCS potential than Farris.

    The biggest problem with Yan is choreography. His sp is painfully dull. It just doesn't give a skater any room to express. If next season he can get some great choreographer, hopefully he will have some improvement on interpretation and transition difficulty. Honestly, I don't like his arm movements.

    Denis really improves a lot this season. His jumps become much more consistent this year. Hopefully he can master 4t which is almost like a requirement for current senior. What surprises me the most is that he has a more mature style this season thanks to Stephane.
    If Han can win junior worlds, he'll likely get better choreo next year as most choreographers won't spend as much time with unknown skaters as they would with up and coming or well established skaters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I don't know if Yan will end up like Chan, but he certainly is talented. Actually, the top 4 are all really, really impressive and each with his own unique style. I guess that would be assumed at a World Championship, but I mean even more than usual. I could see Jason and Josh making the Olympic team in 2014, of course 2018 is probably more likely, but I think both have the potential to overtake the likes of Rippon, Miner, Dornbush, Mahbanoozadeh, etc, all of whom are very talented themselves, but these two have something "extra" for me, idk what. Actually, they both remind me a bit of Lysacek, in different ways though obviously.
    ...
    Joshua and Jason both have very different styles, and to me, neither of them are reminiscent of Lysacek (other than Josh having similar height and long legs -- and Jason hailing from the Chicago area a la Evan). Certainly Josh's romantic, lyrical sp skate to Clair de Lune is much more reminiscent of Johnny Weir's smooth, lyrical style of skating than that of Lysacek. Evan will always be known for his competitiveness and determination, but he always skated over his music. Actually, the dramatic music of Evan's Olympic programs helped mask his weak interpretive skills. Jason is a very unique skater, not really like anyone else, IMO. Jason has charisma, flair, and a very distinctive ability to engage with his music in an exciting way.

    Han Yan definitely has great technique which should serve him well, especially if he is able to combine his technique and athleticism with great music and improved artistry and presentation.

    I was surprised to see Denis at Juniors, but I forget that he came on the senior scene at a young age.

    It will definitely be interesting to see what happens in the U.S. senior men's ranks over the next few years. It's very unfortunate that great skaters get passed over simply b/c their countries can only send 2 or 3 skaters to Worlds.

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    I know, it's unfortunate that some countries have such a wealth of talent that some really strong skaters won't get much international exposure due to their simply being not enough spots. USA, Japan, and now Russia in particular have this problem. But I think the talent and potential of Jason and Josh is high enough that, if they keep progressing the way they are, they have a realistic shot at being one of those select few to represent the US at competitions like Worlds, the Olympics, etc. Yan and Ten are also great talents. If the top 4 men were to all go and skate cleanly in their FSs, I'd expect the total scores to be around 220, maybe even 230 . If it turns out that way that would truly be something, b/c usually JW is won with a score in the low 200s. But they are really that talented and capable of such numbers.

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    Does anyone think Joshua Ferris is a bit like young Jeremy Abbott? I think Ferris has a bright future. He is technically sound and artistically sufficiant. I'm looking forward to seeing him in seniors. Han Yan is very technical. I agree that he has a lot to improve in artistry and music interpretation. But I believe he'll get there. Jason Brown is sooo slowww!

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