Jason Brown's Future Prospects

Violet Bliss · Mar 3, 2012

Maybe Jason should go to Han Yan's coach.

Or Hanyu's.

Many young skaters today have learned their quads from various coaches. It's not always the coach that decides if some one can do the most difficult jumps.

mskater93 · Mar 3, 2012

I don't think Corrie Ade and Alex O have similar philosophies in teaching style which would make it difficult for Jason to spend time with Alex. People seem to forget that Jason went through a major growth spurt last spring and lost his triples which shelved some of the time he should have spent working 3A. I suspect it's close just not quite ready.

Mrs. P · Mar 3, 2012

Here's something I don't think people are taking into account: I think Jason Brown and his team likes perfect programs with no -GOE (or rather, with tons of +GOE). I think that is the gold standard for him and his team.

He did attempt the 3A in a summer comp and while far from perfect (it was two-footed and UR), it's indicative that it's not that he can't do the jump AT ALL. It's that he can't do the jump perfectly.

I'm sure his team knows about Brown's reputation as a all-around packaged skater, so the last thing they want to do is to have that marred by bad 3A attempts. Because he has great choreo, good jump technique on his other jumps and expression, he can get away with this for now. A skater like Kevin Reynolds, for example, doesn't have anything like that, so he has to relay on his jumps — even if they're not executed very well (his quads are pretty cool; but he's had his share of bad 3As).

That said -- yes Brown absolutely needs the 3A (or he can go the Lambiel route and focus on a quad) and his team is aware of that. But I believe there is a long-tail strategy in Brown's development. For those who don't know what that is — in business it means selling "more" unique or hard-to-find items rather than a large volume of a small number of popular items.

In Brown's case, it means not selling — for now — the everyone-must-have 3A and instead selling qualities not seen by those other skaters — great chreo, clean +GOE programs, consistent 7-triple jump programs, expression to the music.

So now we know Brown can do perfect programs. The next step, logistically is perfect programs with 3As.

Spun Silver · Mar 3, 2012

I like your analysis, Mrs. P. What Jason has is mesmerizing and exceptional and is getting excellent results. It's something like Sasha. She reached the highest levels without really mastering a 3/3 - and that wasn't what held her back but her confidence. Of course Jason must get the 3A but not at the cost of his confidence or "perfection."

Bluebonnet · Mar 3, 2012

The hard elements are like cake. The artistic abilities are like icing. If you have the cake, all you need to do is to put on icing. If you have only the icing but no cake, ... :rolleye:

Nadine · Mar 3, 2012

He's only 17. I find it creepy when one focuses on these youthful athletes and expects them to be all that & a bag of chips right out of the starting block. :rolleye:

It reminds me of the fawning over Sasha Cohen when she still looked like a child. Totally weird.

At least Jason looks his age, but the expectations by some are crazy. But the good thing is that he himself stated in an IN article a while ago about looking toward the 2018 Olympics, not 2014. However, this new article by Philip Hersch makes me think he's believing in his own press a bit, but then on a positive note he says he has two more years in Juniors and knows he cannot crack the top tier in seniors without a 3axel (and I'd say a quad as well when it comes to international competition).

Take your time, Jason, don't let *anybody* rush you. One step at a time. You'll get there.

Peace.

Mrs. P · Mar 3, 2012

Bluebonnet said:
The hard elements are like cake. The artistic abilities are like icing. If you have the cake, all you need to do is to put on icing. If you have only the icing but no cake, ...

Jason just doesn't have a piece of the cake. The 3A. Granted it's a big piece, but to say he has no cake is totally misinterpreting his current abilities. While he is known for his artistry, he's no slouch on his tech either. If he was, he wouldn't be winning or getting medal in his competitions. He has the other triples with no edge calls or UR — that is something that many of his competitors cannot say. He has pretty good spins and skating skills. Those are part of the tech too.

Also another note: the judges seem to not mind the lack of a 3A. If you look at his programs at this competition, he had the second highest PCS overall and the highest PCS in the FS in the competition despite finishing third overall.

Also consider: A 3A is worth 8.5 points. Jason only lost in TES to Yan and Farris by 3.67 and 2.64 respectively in the FS. Yes it's because both Josh and Han made mistakes, but consider the BV vs. +GOE earned by the three guys:

BV:
Farris 68.92
Yan 67.86
Brown 63.24

GOE:
Brown: +9.46
Yan: +8.51
Farris: +6.42

Going back to Doris' point in another post — it DOES matter that you can skate a perfect or nearly perfect program. Because Jason did so here, he basically made up some of the point difference lost by not having a 3A.

emma · Mar 3, 2012

^this is one of the things that is amazing about him -- or two of the things: that is BV is still in striking distance without the 3Axel AND that he gets so much + GOE. Thanks for sharing the actual numbers.

silverlake22 · Mar 3, 2012

sky_fly20 said:
Didn't Jason mention he will be working on the 3A by next season
I agree though if he had the 3A even without the quad he would have easily beaten Han Yan and Farris
Farris only did 3A in LP but Brown was still scored more conveniently without the 3A. without a doubt Brown has a bright future hopefully he gets them soon,
I would even say he is miles ahead of Farris.

Farris has the jumps but lacks appeal but with Brown he is an all around.

Jason is good but I don't agree with this at all. Josh had higher PCS than Jason in the SP and was only 0.8 back from Jason's in the FS. There is so much more to Josh Farris's skating than jumps; I mean clearly, you don't score 221+ in a junior event if you just have jumps. Have you not paid attention to his spins, footwork, and sensitivity to the music? To me, Jason and Josh are about even artistically, they have different styles for sure but their PCS would suggest they are on-par with one another, but Josh has the huge advantage of having a nice 3a RIGHT NOW, and further, he's been working on the 4t for two seasons already and we saw at nationals it's pretty close. I like Jason and think he has a lot of potential but I find it almost funny how many people are on his bandwagon and think Josh is chopped liver in comparison, especially when Josh, who is the same age, beat Jason here, gets virtually the same PCS as him at all international events this season, and already has a triple axel (and a nice, solid one at that).

Right now, if anyone is ahead, it's Farris IMO. I think I actually prefer his skating to Jason's and I feel much more comfortable about his future knowing he already has a reliable 3a and is close to having the 4t competition ready. It would appear I'm in the very small minority though...

RemyRose · Mar 3, 2012

silverlake22 said:
jason is good but i don't agree with this at all. Josh had higher pcs than jason in the sp and was only 0.8 back from jason's in the fs. There is so much more to josh farris's skating than jumps; i mean clearly, you don't score 221+ in a junior event if you just have jumps. Have you not paid attention to his spins, footwork, and sensitivity to the music? To me, jason and josh are about even artistically, they have different styles for sure but their pcs would suggest they are on-par with one another, but josh has the huge advantage of having a nice 3a right now, and further, he's been working on the 4t for two seasons already and we saw at nationals it's pretty close. I like jason and think he has a lot of potential but i find it almost funny how many people are on his bandwagon and think josh is chopped liver in comparison, especially when josh, who is the same age, beat jason here, gets virtually the same pcs as him at all international events this season, and already has a triple axel (and a nice, solid one at that).

Right now, if anyone is ahead, it's farris imo. I think i actually prefer his skating to jason's and i feel much more comfortable about his future knowing he already has a reliable 3a and is close to having the 4t competition ready. It would appear i'm in the very small minority though...

ITA

And all this rush for Jason to do a 3axel is too much. Why can't he develop at his own pace? According to interviews him and his team know that they need a 3axel to be competitive but what's the rush?

Jammers · Mar 3, 2012

Jason needs an experienced coach to get to the top. And a top jump coach to get him competitive with the top dogs. But he seems to have almost a bother sister relationship with Kori and might not want to leave her.

Mrs. P · Mar 3, 2012

silverlake22 said:
Jason is good but I don't agree with this at all. Josh had higher PCS than Jason in the SP and was only 0.8 back from Jason's in the FS. There is so much more to Josh Farris's skating than jumps; I mean clearly, you don't score 221+ in a junior event if you just have jumps. Have you not paid attention to his spins, footwork, and sensitivity to the music? To me, Jason and Josh are about even artistically, they have different styles for sure but their PCS would suggest they are on-par with one another, but Josh has the huge advantage of having a nice 3a RIGHT NOW, and further, he's been working on the 4t for two seasons already and we saw at nationals it's pretty close. I like Jason and think he has a lot of potential but I find it almost funny how many people are on his bandwagon and think Josh is chopped liver in comparison, especially when Josh, who is the same age, beat Jason here, gets virtually the same PCS as him at all international events this season, and already has a triple axel (and a nice, solid one at that).

Right now, if anyone is ahead, it's Farris IMO. I think I actually prefer his skating to Jason's and I feel much more comfortable about his future knowing he already has a reliable 3a and is close to having the 4t competition ready. It would appear I'm in the very small minority though...

I agree that Josh is not chopped liver and brings a lot to the table. That said, he does seem to have some consistency issues. He was first after the JGPF and had a 4-poin lead + the cushion of 2 3A's and still managed to lose to Jason overall by nearly 10 points. Jason also beat Farris at Nationals by 12 points despite a mini-meltdown from Jason in the LP. So in face to face competition during 2011-2012 it's still 2-1, Brown.

This is the first time all season that Josh has beat Brown with nearly-perfect programs (though still with some mistakes). So while the 3As gives Josh an advantage as far as BV, all bets are off if he makes a ton of mistakes.

And if you look at the overall season.
Brown — 2 Gold (JGPF + JPF Australia), 1 silver (JGP Italy), 1 bronze (JW)
Farris — 2 gold (JGP Poland + Estonia), 1 silver (JW), 1 bronze (JGPF)

Their international record is just about the same, which goes to show that the 3A isn't everything, at least at this point.

So — at this point — Farris hasn't shown yet that he's that much better than Brown in competition. Of course that all could change at the senior level, but for now, I wouldn't count Jason out. (And I'm not counting Josh out yet either).

skateflower · Mar 3, 2012

Mrs. P said:
I'm sure his team knows about Brown's reputation as a all-around packaged skater, so the last thing they want to do is to have that marred by bad 3A attempts. Because he has great choreo, good jump technique on his other jumps and expression, he can get away with this for now. A skater like Kevin Reynolds, for example, doesn't have anything like that, so he has to relay on his jumps — even if they're not executed very well (his quads are pretty cool; but he's had his share of bad 3As).

This analysis is ridiculous. Reputation by getting a few junior medals means absolutely zero for senior internaional competitions, unless he can be a kid forever. You master skills by trying them at competitions. Can't imagine he can somehow magically land a 3a next year in an important competition without even trying it.

Spun Silver · Mar 3, 2012

skateflower said:
This analysis is ridiculous. Reputation by getting a few junior medals means absolutely zero for senior internaional competitions, unless he can be a kid forever. You master skills by trying them at competitions. Can't imagine he can somehow magically land a 3a next year in an important competition without even trying it.

And you have inside knowledge that he is not planning to try it in some unimportant competitions first?

skateflower · Mar 3, 2012

Spun Silver said:
And you have inside knowledge that he is not planning to try it in some unimportant competitions first?

He hasn't tried anything yet. But according Mrs P, he wants to wait until his 3a is perfect. I don't think that's the case.

Spun Silver · Mar 3, 2012

^ That's not what she said. She noted he's tried it in a small comp already and not fully succeeded, so he's waiting to put it in big comps until it's perfect.

Mao88 · Mar 3, 2012

New article by Phil Hersh featuring a post free skate telephone interview with Jason.

skateflower · Mar 3, 2012

There is no way Jason Brown with 2 2As can beat even Denis Ten at a senior GP event as Ten landed 2 3As.

Spun Silver · Mar 3, 2012

Really? Jason just beat Denis and his 2 3As by 10 points. I guess if Denis had landed a beautiful 4T he would have beaten Jason but it doesn't seem like he would have done it with just the 3As. Would it be so different in seniors?

RemyRose · Mar 3, 2012

Is the 3axel a mandatory jump for the mens short program? In seniors that is.

Jason Brown's Future Prospects

Violet Bliss

mskater93

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

Spun Silver

Bluebonnet

Nadine

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

emma

silverlake22

RemyRose

YOLO

Jammers

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

skateflower

Match Penalty

Spun Silver

skateflower

Match Penalty

Spun Silver

Mao88

skateflower

Match Penalty

Spun Silver

RemyRose

YOLO

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