Jason Brown's Future Prospects

[emma]

So, for the record, I love Brown, never dissed Farris (who I like a lot) and by extension, I'm so happy for Han. But, since this is a thread about Brown, I focused on what I love about him (and it wouldn't surprise me if some of the other posters were doing the same). I've said this before this season, who knows if Brown will get 3axel or a quad; seems unlikely that he can be a senior contender without at least one of these if not both; but by golly, I'll watch him skate without them and enjoy the skating....but, yes, I do hope he gets them so I can enjoy him as a senior contender too. And, I can't wait to see all of these guys next year - the juniors really impressed me this season and boy, I bet some of the current seniors are taking note.

[skateflower]

Really? Jason just beat Denis and his 2 3As by 10 points. I guess if Denis had landed a beautiful 4T he would have beaten Jason but it doesn't seem like he would have done it with just the 3As. Would it be so different in seniors?

That's my complaint. Judges at this jr. worlds inflated Jason's scores. Denis could beat him at a senior event even with those mistakes. There's no way Jason will get pcs advantage with that kind of jump content even his skating style is unique. Denis's scores suffered also because he represents a 'weak' federation.

[dorispulaski]

4. Admittedly, my biggest pet peeve is that people who love Brown really seem to be dismissing Farris way too strongly. If that wasn't part of it, it would just be stereotypical overhyping of junior skaters (and in this case, one I just don't get the love for).

I don't know about other people, but I am not disrespecting Farris's skating. I think he deservedly beat Brown here, at least by the protocols, since Brown's LP isn't up. He may well have a brighter future in competitive skating than Brown, especially since he has 3A and 4T. I just don't particularly enjoy Farris's skating. When someone tells me he's like Rippon & Abbott, that tells you the whole deal. He is like other people and has no personal style as yet, at least that I can discern IMO. He is skating to Rachmaninoff like half the people that aren't skating to Carmen and doing stuff I've seen many times before.

Brown is unique, and I would pay to watch him, even if he never gets a 3A, because he does unique, interesting stuff to music, and is like nobody else, except maybe a little bit like his choreographer, Rohene Ward, whom I also would pay to watch skate any time, even though he never finished above last place or so at US Nationals. And there are people who feel this way about Shawn Sawyer and Jonathan Casser. Sometimes you just connect with a performer, whether they are going to win or not.

So IMO, people are talking over each other here. It's OK to like Joshua Farris and think he's likely to win a lot of medals. He probably is. I think it's OK to like Jason Brown and really enjoy watching what he puts out on the ice. What does it hurt Farris fans that Brown fans enjoy Brown's skating?

I am interested in whether Brown gets his big jumps, because, selfishly, I hope to see him skate longer on the the competitive scene, something that is more unlikely to happen if he does not get his big jumps.

[spikydurian]

Wow this 'kid' is generating so much interest and excitement. It's always great to know talented skaters climbing the ranks and be there with the big boys some day. Good luck. Hope he gets his jumps in place in next couple of years. I think he does need jumps to be anything near the podium finishes in big competitions.

[Mrs. P]

What is wrong of capitalizing on what you're good at and omit what you're not? I get the vibe from his detractors that Brown isn't being "competitive enough" because he has decided not to include the jump in his programs. Or that he needs experience by attempting a flawed jump.

That's the beauty of COP. Jason has been successful this year because he's made the most of what he DOES have instead of obsessing over what he doesn't. He and his team has milked every point they can without a 3A. Let's contrast that with someone like Brandon Mroz that was so bent on getting that quad lutz that the rest of his skating really suffered for it. Or Kevin Reynolds obsessing about two quads in the SP that the rest of his program leaves a lot to be desired.

I say that's smart strategy and development.

Also, the other thing that I get from detractors is that Jason doesn't care about the 3A at all. Just because he doesn't bring it to competition doesn't me he isn't trying to work it out. Phil Hersh pointed in one of his articles that he will try the 3A several dozen times in a given day. I think he knows that he needs it.

[Mrs. P]

Also as for dissing Farris -- I think that was one poster. Nobody is saying Farris doesn't have a bright future or that he doesn't deserve props for having a 3A and being close on a 4T.

But why is it unreasonable, as Doris pointed out, some people like Brown better than Farris? I think Farris is quite elegant and some great basics, but I've definitely connected with Brown more because he has this connection with his programs and music I don't see in many other skaters.. I think it's very similar to Chan vs. Takahashi. Chan is blowing him away in competition, but there are people out there who will always hold Takahashi in higher esteem because Takahashi does a good job drawing you in.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Mrs. P, I won't deny part of my rooting interest in Farris is about the narrative. A misguided decision by his coach meant he had an atrocious 2011 Nationals, missing out on the rest of the season when he was a likely candidate for junior worlds. And I loved his short program. So I'd like to se him succeed. I only watched Brown at the same Nationals when he had that hurricane of internet praise - Blades said he had the best men's long program of the season (performance/choreography) and virtually every blog mentioned just how wonderful he was. I saw nothing of note. And this year, again - I see nothing of note. So my perspective is definitely skewed.

It's interesting to see you compare Brown to Sawyer and Casser. Were those two constantly acclaimed as the next big thing? How many times have you heard "if he gets the triple axel/quad he'll be the men's champion" etc? I've read it virtually every time he enters the discussion. We're told he has the whole package (in this thread) even though it's clear he's missing a big part of it - perhaps the part he needs the most to be competitive on the big stage. I read comments like yours - "Oh, he's just not trying the triple axel in big competitions until it's perfect" and wonder - why the rationalization here? I can't think of a single skater who refused to try a problem element in big competitions until it was perfect. You make a comment on Farris' consistency issues and seem to present Brown as a paragon of consistency. Of course, his long program at Nationals certainly doesn't fit the mold people are selling. And that's what I don't get.

I guess I get from Brown-fans a dismissal of the challenges he faces getting the triple axel and the assumption it'll come without any problem.

ETA: It's not unreasonable, of course, to prefer one skater to another. I can't imagine you think I'm saying that.

[dorispulaski]

No, and that's why I mean that people are talking over one another.

I have heard people talk about Sawyer and Cassar, telling other people, "This guy is wonderful and unique and I love watching him. " (And they don't say, "Too bad his 3A is missing/inconsistent, I don't care)." People listening are hearing, "This guy is wonderful & unique", (And they are thinking, "This idiot thinks Cassar is going to win the Olympics without a 3A"--which is, of course, not what they said or thought)

There are two things:
1. Winning competitions
2. Producing a program that some members of the audience will really connect to.

They are not the same thing.

You can win without connecting or doing anything unique and interesting.
You can do unique, interesting things and connect with fans without ever winning even a pewter medal.

There is a class of fan that likes to be rooting for the winner.
And there is a class of fan that just likes what they like, and don't care who wins, although it is better if their favorite wins.

I must say that the best times of being a fan are when those things do come together, and the skater who wins is one who does interesting and unique things that you will remember fondly all your life. But it's not an every year occurrence.

If you don't get Brown, I hope you will see him live one day, when he's having a good competition. He's good on youtube, but he is better live.

[Mathman]

I saw nothing of note. And this year, again - I see nothing of note.

To me, Jason's skating has a smooth flow, an interesting variety of positions, and choreography filled with charming detail. His performances hold my attention.

It's interesting to see you compare Brown to Sawyer and Cassar. Were those two constantly acclaimed as the next big thing?

I think the comparison is that these are two skaters, like Brown, that audiences like to watch. A Jonathan Cassar spread eagle is worth the price of admission all by itself.

http://figureskatersonline.com/news/...ancassar01.jpg

Here is Rohene Ward in 2002.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAdIn...3024D8EE80A3DC

None of these skaters could jump well enough to win any international competitions. Maybe Jason Brown will fall into the same category. Myself, I think he is in good company. And who knows, he might even surprise us.

[dorispulaski]

^^^^^^^
Yes

BTW, Rohene Ward is successfully touring in Europe in Holiday on Ice.

Here is his audition tape, including triple axels, and double axels in sequence, rotated in opposite directions.
Rohene had the jumps, he just had no head for competition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC1-havgrIk

That's why he had the best attended practice sessions I've ever seen.

[Bluebonnet]

Is the 3axel a mandatory jump for the mens short program? In seniors that is.

Even though it's not mandatory, doing only 2A in SP in seniors sounds quite funny. If you want to move up to seniors, you'd better have at least 3A if you don't have a quad yet.

If he's actually waiting until it's perfect before putting it in big competitions, I'm pretty much gonna write him off right now.

Me too. Jason could stay in Juniors for a couple more years with 2A, but not in seniors. He hasn't had the biggest piece of hardware, what to hype about?

[Tinymavy15]

Yes, in this Phil Hersh article, it says that Brown is working on it and hopeful of having it ready by next season. Hope he is right, because without it he will struggle.

"hoping to have it" translates into "will try it a few times, maybe land one and finally get it near consistent in 2 years." that's fine. He has plenty of time. Most of the men peak into their mid-20s I don't see the rush.

[Blades of Passion]

LOL, I need to figure out some way to brainwash ImaginaryPogue so his beautiful mind can be brought out of the dark side.

[ImaginaryPogue]

Heh. In fairness, me saying I saw "nothing of note" is incorrect and unfair. He had that moment in his Turandot program I enjoyed (the 2f combination), and I love that he can hydroblade into a Russian split (which we saw on that mall ice where Cain/Regan and Virtue/Moir did programs at/during a conference). He's definitely a unique talent.

[Mao88]

The Jason Brown LP video has now finally surfaced!! I've placed a copy in the Men's Long Program thread in the Junior Worlds section