Han Yan's current height should be 5-7. Boys at this age grow fast!
Why?! Can't anyone say anything the opposit? It's actually not all about Jason. Who cares whether Jason is tall or short?! It's more of trying to find the point in the proof that was given. Mrs.P gave two videos which were a year apart as a proof for her point but I didn't find such a proof in those videos as she claimed. Can't I say it?
Originally Posted by mskater93
If you think my points are invalid, you are very welcome to state your reasoning. I believe reasoning. You didn't continue your reasoning. Instead, you threw this non-sense to me? When a skater, any skater, is hyped to such a point, like when Adam Rippon was from Juniors turning into seniors, or like Caroline Zhang was a few years back, you can't expect no one else say anything otherwise. Joshua wasn't the focus because Joshua wasn't hyped like this.
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 03-06-2012 at 10:47 PM.
What I see is people praising Jason for his attributes. Can't people SAY THAT? People — including mskater93 — have explained WHY Jason has shown promise and potential for the future despite his shortcomings. That is not hype. Saying Jason is going to be the Olympic Gold Medalist in Sochi or beat Patrick Chan next season — that's hype. Saying why a skater has potential is not. I ask that you see the difference.
Originally Posted by Bluebonnet
MSkater93 actually skates in the same area as Jason and has seen for herself — as I pointed out earlier — Jason's growth spurt. She also has followed Jason — and his coaching team — since he was a juvenile level skater (and I when I say follow, I mean been at the same competitions in person), so I think that she is more credible to talk about his development/growth/struggles than you seem willing to give her.
Also while the videos were perhaps not to your satisfaction, I also posted a Chicago Tribune article that says that Jason had a growth spurt. Please refer to that and the examples SkateFiguring pointed out. I think it's pretty obviously that Jason grew quickly in a short period of time.
Last edited by Mrs. P; 03-06-2012 at 11:43 PM.
When I read the allegation of Bluebonnet's strong personal dislike against Jason Brown, I looked up her posts on the subject. I don't see her saying anything personal against him but sticking to his skating like everyone does on various skaters. She also questioned the claim of his tremendous growth spurt in the last year since there was no convincing evidence of that. (What I could brought here indicated a catch up growth against Joshua since 2009 but no definitive measure of amount in the last year since there was no podium picture when they competed as Nationals Seniors.) In either case, I think it's a fair and brave voicing of opinions spurred on by the amount of different opinions on the board. There is no personal disparaging from her against the skater in question.
Transferring the displeasure about opinions expressed to the poster is a tempting emotional reaction but not conducive to a healhty debate IMHO.
It's also unhealthy to assume that people who believe in Jason has promise or that he has a future in the sport despite his current challenges are nothing but mere delusional fanatics or someone just gushing about their favorite. Many have responded, I feel in a reasonable manner, to why we believe Jason has a future in this sport and the only response we get in return is "Why is Jason getting all this hype?" or "Why can't we say anything bad about him" "He doesn't have the 3A, that's what matters" or that "they're just fans in denial."
Originally Posted by SkateFiguring
I have said over and over again that I AGREE Jason needs the 3A, so have other fans. I've also said over and over again that I don't deny that he is having trouble with the jump. But that doesn't mean he's doomed for the rest of his career or he'll never learn the jump. Or that he isn't competitive right now.
I think people are trying to have a dialogue here, but are hitting a wall. It's being felt on both sides, I'm sure.
In the end, I think we're in a we just have to be in an agree-to-disagree state of mind, I don't feel like there's much more to be said that can move this conversation along. We know that:
1.) Some people admire Jason's skating/choreography
2.) Some people don't because he doesn't have a 3A or don't care for his style.
3.) Jason is working on the 3A but has had obstacles.
4.) We don't know if he'll have it by next year.
And with that I'm out.
Last edited by Mrs. P; 03-07-2012 at 01:06 AM.
At the rink. Again.
Bluebonnet, I asked that question if he ran over your dog (in a tongue in cheek manner) because you went personal about Jason in another thread about his choice of hairstyle and costuming along with continuing to rip on his skating, which may not be your cup of tea. SF, I asked my question in a tongue and cheek manner because not only has Bluebonnet expressed dislike of Jason's skating but also of his hair (which, frankly has nothing to do with whether he has a 3A a quintiple jump or anything else on the ice).
Fact: from my own visual experiences in person, Jason Brown HAS grown several inches in the last 13-14 months. Do I have a tape measure and slip up behind him and measure how tall he is when I do see him? NO. Fact: he did change boot types and that did cause problems with his skating last spring/summer limiting his opportunity to work on 3A and 4's. Fact: judges (and many fans) seem to love his soft knees, charisma, and flowing style or else he wouldn't cause this much buzz and wouldn't place as high as he does without a 3A and/or 4's (JGP, JGPF, JW,and also Senior Nationals - 99.5% of skaters without a 3A will not make the top 10 in men's, but there's something about his skating that is appealing that gives him that boost into the top 10 without the 3A).
With that, I am out of this thread...
Last edited by mskater93; 03-07-2012 at 10:10 AM.
Exactly how personal was that to voice dislikes on one's hair style on ice? It's like costumes, it's part of skating. That was a fair opinion. If you think his hair looks good, that is your fair opinion. Why took offence?
Originally Posted by mskater93
Do you mean that people cannot comment on skater's hair and costumes, otherwise it is too personal? For all times sake, Kevin Reynolds has several names being called for his hair style and people made fun from it. No one took offence on that. Why this time? (For the record, I don't like Reynolds hair style at all.)
If you call that was "rip on his skating", be it. I was merely pointing out the truth which some of his fans do not want to face.
Rooting for the divas with Kwanford
Bluebonnet, your views on Jason's hair and your allusion to him as "all icing, no cake" (2nd page of this thread) are opinion, not "truth."
It's so ironic that you're insisting on your right to nitpick an obviously talented, already popular young American skater. Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall you get very annoyed when anything negative is said about your favorite Patrick.
If it's truth you're concerned about, well - the truth is that 17-year-old Jason Brown has a lot of fans and a lot of hopes pinned on him. We all find him exciting *now*, and we all hope he'll get the 3A and a quad so he can be competitive in seniors. If he doesn't, he'll still be a fan favorite every year at nationals.
It's hard for me to see what anyone would find shortsighted or objectionable about this! It's not as if anyone has suggested he could beat Patrick at this point. Now that would be silly. But we can hope....
Spun, you took my words out of context! Have you read my entire post on that?! I first refered to the hard elements as a cake, and said Jason doesn't have it. That's the truth, not opinion. Jason doesn't have a 3A which was what I was refering to. Do you even want to deny that?!
Originally Posted by Spun Silver
I can't believe this!!! How quickly it could turn into personal to aim at specific poster or posters!
03-07-2012, 12:39 PM
Rooting for the divas with Kwanford
I didn't misunderstand you, Bluebonnet. The question is how you interpret his lack of that jump.
Fact: Jason lacks a 3A. His other jumps are solid and his flow, line, interpretation, and musicality are exciting to many fans and are getting respect from the judges.
Opinion: Lack of a 3A is "the cake." Everything else he has is just "icing." That is how you put it. How did I distort your words?
As for turning personal - well, it's bad enough that the "Chan Patrol" snaps back whenever anyone dares to criticize him on this board. But when I see you turn around and criticize Jason to the point that his fans back off, then I want to speak up.
Is it fair to criticize skaters sharply? Then enough with the Chan Patrol. Is it unfair to criticize skaters sharply? Then enough about Jason being nothing but "icing."
03-07-2012, 01:13 PM
After seeing Jason at JW this week, he reminds me a bit of Patrick back in 2008. He is praised for his choreography, edges, and musicality and the strength of his overall skating but he doesnt have the jump content to take him farther. As much as people say that you need PC scores to do well in competition, much like for Patrick in 2008 he needs the jump content to take him to the top. And looking at Patrick now with a good 3A and 4T he's owning the skating world.
And also when you mean be competitive, in what way? He was 9th at senior nationals, to be competitive do you mean for him to make the world team, top 5 at nationals? What about junior worlds, to win? It depends on what you mean by that.
03-07-2012, 03:35 PM
I hear what everyone is saying. I do not think it is fair to judge Jason without seeing him skate in person. At 2011 Nationals he as a virtual unknown moved an entire audience. My section was standing before he was done saying who is that? He was more entertaining and interesting to watch then any of the top three. You can't teach that. He has that "it" factor. You can teach the 3A , 4T, and imo he will learn it and learn it well. Leave the boy alone. He is a nice person too who attends regular high school who is so kind to his fans. I still feel he is the one to watch.
03-07-2012, 03:52 PM
Ok, so you are arguing which should be cake and which should be icing? Take it. Take the whole cake and with icing. Lip works won't give Jason the 3A he needs. I certainly wish him well.
Originally Posted by Spun Silver
Last edited by Bluebonnet; 03-07-2012 at 04:01 PM.
03-07-2012, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Boeing787
How can Yan be 5'7" and Farris 5'8" when the height difference between them is around 3 inches, maybe more? Hmmm
03-07-2012, 07:23 PM
It's ridiculous to compare Jason's hairstyle with Kevin Reynolds. Jason's hair is smooth, neat and doesn't fall into his face when he's skating. Kevin's hair is a messy bird's nest that flops down into his face, obscuring his eyes. Jason looks elegant. Kevin looks anything BUT elegant.