Should Gracie or Caroline or Agnes or Mirai replace Alissa for Worlds?

Li'Kitsu · Mar 16, 2012

R.D. said:
our chances of 3 spots go from moderately slim to nonexistent

This thread is actually some kind of funny. Probably in a way it wasn't intented to be.
There seems to be a bunch of americans here crieng out loud for that 'oh-so-precious' 3. spot.
Yet, there goes (nearly - because of off topic showing up) 16(!!) pages of discussing, who to even send as the second skater. Am I getting that right? It doesn't seem to matter at all, if you even have the skaters to fill out the spots. So what if you'd have 3 spots now? Could you even use them?
And that some people have to write as if these spots actually were 'theirs' to begin with. It's those skaters spots, if they didn't earn them, end of it. I'm actually more concerned Russia might lose a spot this year, because they're having so many skaters, who would deserve a spot. And because of that stupid limitation not all of them will be allowed one anyway.

To answer the question... no, Czisny shouldn't be replaced.
Gold stayed junior this season, stop bringing her up at any possibile situation. No one's doing her any favor with that.
Zhang isn't the first alternate. I'd be happy with her going, but she already looked to me as if she achieved more than she thought she could. Just wishing her all the best for next season, hope she can improve even more.
If Czisny has an injury, Zawadski is fine for me. She probably wouldn't be able to get that hughly beloved 3. spot back, but it's an experience. She's still very young and has huge potential, obviously that's not even a reason for a lot of people to talk a little more respectful, but I shouldn't get started on that, it's no good...

I always knew I wasn't nationalistic enough for soccer, but that the figure skating crowd could be even worse in some parts, is a pretty discouraging suprise.

PolymerBob · Mar 16, 2012

Li'Kitsu said:
This thread is actually some kind of funny. Probably in a way it wasn't intented to be.
There seems to be a bunch of americans here crieng out loud for that 'oh-so-precious' 3. spot.
Yet, there goes (nearly - because of off topic showing up) 16(!!) pages of discussing, who to even send as the second skater. Am I getting that right? It doesn't seem to matter at all, if you even have the skaters to fill out the spots. So what if you'd have 3 spots now? Could you even use them?

That's a very good point. The reason why we need a 3rd spot is that if one skater has a bad day, the other 2 will still retain the 3rd spot. If we could send Ashley, Alissa and a 3rd girl, there is a very good chance that 2 of them will have reasonably good skates.

Li'Kitsu said:
I always knew I wasn't nationalistic enough for soccer, but that the figure skating crowd could be even worse in some parts, is a pretty discouraging suprise.

I don't think we are worse than soccer fans. I have heard of people getting killed at soccer games. :eek:

DianaSelene · Mar 16, 2012

Spun Silver said:
Hello? That's Alyssa's best Worlds finish so far too (fifth). At least Agnes is young and has time to improve.

Exactly, it seems like Czisny's peak and not that great considering the great long history of American ladies skaters. I am saying that I don't think Zawadzki will become good enough to get higher than a fourth or fifth at worlds. Sure she can improve or she may stagnate. Just my opinion.

skateluvr · Mar 18, 2012

Though I wish Alissa would withdraw and retire, it isn't gonna happen before worlds. I don't even much care that Alissa's undeserved PCS when she skates poorly and messes up 2-3 jumps "might" get back the third spot. I'd be happy to see Agnes get the shot as she is the alternate of course and I see a lot of quality in her skating. Her jumps really are beautiful. She needs the exposure. And I am not sure why people don't seem to like her so much. it seems she had a lot of admirers when she came on the senior scene at Nationals. There is a certain mannish look to her body which does not appeal to people, but I think she has a lot of pluses. What do people think of her skating, never mind what the judges are giving her for placements. Alissa is done I think after worlds. So Agnes is one of our best. What does she need to do to improve her scores?

Spun Silver · Mar 18, 2012

I feel exactly the same way about Alissa.

I think Agnes needs better programs and packaging. What could help her do a clean FS I have no idea, but if she could get over that hump, she could be fabulous.

R.D. · Mar 18, 2012

Zawadzki already got her big chance (at 4CC). I think it was the right call to send her there. Although it was a step up from her GP events, she was still the lowest placing American of the bunch (6th). I agree that new programs- programs that are a better fit for her- would be beneficial. Just like Wagner needed to get over her SP hump to take the next step, Zawadzki needs to get over her LP funk...

How about this: If Czisny can perform well enough for 3 spots, then that 3rd spot could very well be Zawadzki's next year...we need to send the skaters that give us the best shot, even if it's looking like a longer one than it did a month ago.

chuckm · Mar 18, 2012

6th at 4CC wasn't a bad placement for Zawadzki, considering that it was her first senior ISU championship. But she won't get better PCS scores until she can skate a better FS.

Vash01 · Mar 18, 2012

Definitely not Gold. She has never competed at the senior level. It will be unwise to throw her into senior worlds without even competing at the national level.

I am not sold on Agnes yet. She makes just enough mistakes to keep herself out of the top spot.

Caroline has made a great comeback. I wish she was on the team, but she didn't quite make the team. I look forward to bigger and better things from her.

For now I am OK with Alissa.

LiamForeman · Mar 18, 2012

I am OK with Alissa going. She'll probably bomb as usual, but unfortunately Zhang hasn't given USFS much reason to choose her over Alissa or Agnes. If we still do not get a third person yet again, at least we're used to the feeling.

macy · Mar 18, 2012

i think that's what will happen with alissa too...i'm going to be really sad when she does retire as i absolutely love her skating. you never know, maybe she will pull herself together. yuka and jason have done wonders with her so maybe they can help her with what little time there is between the challenge cup and worlds. i don't count her out. when she skates well, she can score well. she just needs to go into worlds with a no expectations attitude. she is no longer the reigning US champion and has had a relatively rough season, so i hope she goes out with the mindset that there's nothing to prove.

tampro1 · Mar 18, 2012

Vash01 said:
Definitely not Gold. She has never competed at the senior level. It will be unwise to throw her into senior worlds without even competing at the national level.

I am not sold on Agnes yet. She makes just enough mistakes to keep herself out of the top spot.

Caroline has made a great comeback. I wish she was on the team, but she didn't quite make the team. I look forward to bigger and better things from her.

For now I am OK with Alissa.

I agree that Gold should not go. She should earn it on the senior level. The judges weren't expecting Caroline to improve as much as she has as she was held down in the SP at Nationals and Alissa was held up. By the time they realized Caroline was skating well, she was too far back. Plus it didn't help her that Ashley skated to a well deserved title. Caroline probably should have been 2nd at Nationals. So since the judges placed Alissa 2nd, the USFSA will just have to suck it up and hope she skates well enough to get the US 3 slots for next year.

Skater Boy · Mar 19, 2012

I guess I am getting technical here and there is lots of room for opinions but the issue was whether Alyssa should go or these other ladies. Technically, Alyssa earned the spot. She has the potential right now especially to win Gold - admittedly though and this is a an odd opinion I rather her win WGM than Olympic. Life isn't fair but I think it is very "nice" to see a relatively one shot wonder who then disappears after getting "lucky" and winning their medal. Maybe that's why I would have liked to have seen Kwan or Slutskaya win a OGM or even a Butyrskaya or Chen with several world medals. With alyssa we will be happy if she wins a world or olympic title or the infamous bronze - what isi t about that medal - you win it and then you fall to tenth or something lol. Zhang is exciting to see her fight back but Alyssa does potentially have a chance to podium or even win - of course she has a chance of ending up 13th as well

or

R.D. · Mar 19, 2012

The possibility is there, but not going to get my hopes up. She's struggled all season; hard for me to see how she's going to suddenly snap out of that funk at season's end. Only thing is to hope she stands up enough to hang onto 7th...(and that Wagner can deliver, of course- if she does, she should be ~5th perhaps)

mskater93 · Mar 19, 2012

tampro1 said:
I agree that Gold should not go. She should earn it on the senior level. The judges weren't expecting Caroline to improve as much as she has as she was held down in the SP at Nationals and Alissa was held up. By the time they realized Caroline was skating well, she was too far back. Plus it didn't help her that Ashley skated to a well deserved title. Caroline probably should have been 2nd at Nationals. So since the judges placed Alissa 2nd, the USFSA will just have to suck it up and hope she skates well enough to get the US 3 slots for next year.

Zhang was in no way "held down". She still has much improvement that needs to be made on the blade to ice side.

R.D. · Mar 19, 2012

I understand arguing Zhang should have been 3rd (over Zawadzki who, despite the great SP, fell apart in the FS) but 2nd? Nah...Don't think she is there yet.

tampro1 · Mar 19, 2012

mskater93 said:
Zhang was in no way "held down". She still has much improvement that needs to be made on the blade to ice side.

This is just my opinion from seeing it live in person. I rewatched it on TV afterwards. It definitely lost a lot from seeing it live. Caroline has a long way to go for sure but that was one of the better SP (and LP). Alissa skated slow, tentative with obvious mistakes in both SP and LP. Ashley deserved the title. She skated relatively clean with the most attack and difficulty. Placings between 2nd-5th were questionable. If everyone skates their best, I'd go with Alissa as she is truly gorgeous in every way on the ice. That just wasn't the case at Nationals. Alissa obviously has the potential to medal/place high at worlds if she skates well and the US judges know that. But her performance at Nationals were not worthy of silver medal.

chuckm · Mar 19, 2012

I wasn't impressed with Czisny at Nationals either. She is SO slow and it is agonizing to watch her approach each jump hesitantly. IMO, she was majorly held up in the SP and that was what kept her in 2nd place overall.

Alissa deserved her Nationals win last year, but she just isn't the same skater this year---she seems to have a good year-bad year cycle. Unfortunately, I believe last year was her peak year: she will be 25 in June, so it's going to be a downhill trend for Alissa from here on.

R.D. · Mar 19, 2012

^ I suppose it would beg the question of whether the coach change TRULY helped her in the long run, but ultimately I agree that she probably peaked last year as a skater, and it's downhill from there. She may have another swing up on the roller coaster but it won't be as high as last year.

But who knows- stranger things have happened.

fairly4 · Mar 19, 2012

no they shouldnt; i realize alissa hasnt performed great all year- she is passable.
however she deserves the shot and no matter what happens.
as to that she also deserves praise, criticque afterward depending on what happens.

she skates well, and or bad. no matter what the choice is hers and hers alone to make regarding her skate at worlds.
changing might not guarantee a better skate,
yes agnes skated okay but screwed up in long at nationals, 4cc, -mirai didn't skate and figt at nationals therefore didn't make it again.
caroline did skate decent and/well at nationals and 4cc-(undermarked a bit -for 3rd at nationals-score a bit low at 4cc) but she didn't earn it at nationals therefore has no right to go.
only if alissa pulls out should they (usfsa) sends someone else-not based on what happend at challenge cup-hopefully she can put it behind her and say that was that =this is a new day. so lets give it my best and i will do my best. no matter what happens.
i gave it my all.
at challenge cup i felt alissa didn't give her all, just skated why my opinion-reprisal for not going to 4cc-.

chuckm · Mar 19, 2012

I doubt Alissa skated badly at Challenge Cup as a 'reprisal' for not going to 4CC, because HER reputation was at stake, not USFS's. It also negatively impacted her coaches' reputation, and it sure wasn't their fault Alissa wasn't selected for 4CC.

I think if Alissa HAD gone to 4CC, she might have skated worse than she did at Nationals and possibly finished lower than Agnes.

Should Gracie or Caroline or Agnes or Mirai replace Alissa for Worlds?

Li'Kitsu

PolymerBob

DianaSelene

skateluvr

Spun Silver

R.D.

chuckm

Vash01

LiamForeman

William/Uilyam

macy

tampro1

Skater Boy

R.D.

mskater93

R.D.

tampro1

chuckm

R.D.

fairly4

chuckm

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