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Thread: Should Gracie or Caroline or Agnes or Mirai replace Alissa for Worlds?

  1. #61
    Down With It
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    Totally agree that Czisny was gifted with the silver medal at Nationals. At best, she should have been in fourth place behind Zawadzki and Zhang.
    Seriously? Are people forgetting that Zawadzki ALSO had a really shaky FS? No way should she have been over Czisny.

    I can understand the argument some were making that Zhang should have been 3rd over Zawadzki- but honestly, with the exception of Wagner, everyone was sorta iffy in that FS.

    I actually think Nagasu would be best suited to replace Alissa. She did have sort of a meltdown at Nationals, but I think she may just get through her LP on a good day and even score well. A decent skate from Mirai wouldn't score too badly, would it now?
    But here's the issue I have with this: You are basically trading in one headcase for another. Nagasu seemed totally uninspired, unprepared and unmotivated in her FS at Nationals. I guess if she did respectably, as you point out, she might be ok, but honestly- same goes for Czisny. The two are alike in that you don't really know what to expect from them, and at their best they are definitely among the elite. But "their best" doesn't happen often, if at all.

    But for crying out loud, don't next Nationals go out of your way to overgift any of the skaters on PCS. The point of Nationals is to let them go head to head, and see who qualifies.
    If I had to complain about anyone being overmarked, I'd say perhaps Zawadzki in the SP. Yes, her SP was great, but the point margin should have been narrower IMHO. Other than that, I think it was OK.
    Last edited by R.D.; 03-11-2012 at 10:29 AM. Reason: add quote

  2. #62
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Actually, the much-maligned Ms. Flatt turned in a really good free skate at US Nationals. The one thing she really screwed up was popping an axel? in the SP.

    For that matter, Ms. Flatt landed more stuff on a broken leg at Worlds than Ms. Czisny did at her recent competition in The Hague.

    No, I don't think Rachael should go to Worlds this year, but I think she should get a clean slate at the next Nationals and not be deliberately underscored, any more than Czisny should be deliberately overscored.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by skfan View Post
    i'm no czisny fan (right, mathman?) but this strikes me as very wrong--wrong enough to make me de-lurk, LOL. IMO you (the USFSA, whatever governing organization) should decide ahead of time what competition or competitions will decide the world team, you tell all the competitors so they know what to expect, and you don't get to take it back, unless the skater is truly injured or otherwise incapacitated.

    if it truly is an injury that is hindering czisny then she should do the right thing and withdraw--the spot she saves might be her own at 2013 worlds. but if you keep saying, we reserve to change our minds at any time, the competitors never get to set their training schedules and mindset, IMO.

    i always believe and i still do in US nationals being the night to make or break, decide it all, and even so the judges were able to influence the world team by fudging the judging at us nationals. they already took into account the whole GP season or whatever their tea-leaves-reading told them when they decided the 1,2,3,4 etc. so leave it at that. sleep in the bed you made.

    it pains me to say this since i like many of the younger skaters like nina jiang, angela wang, leah keiser, and czisny skating like this at worlds would hurt them, but i really think this sort of knee-jerk neither here nor there is unfair to skaters in general.
    I agree with this post. I want to see the US regain that third spot just as much as everyone else (in the US, at least) but USFS should not be allowed to re-nege on their assignment at this time. If this makes everyone stop to think about whether it SHOULD be considered, then fine. Make it clear to all skaters and coaches in advance and put it in writing...for next season. If it was known to be a possibility that a less than stellar performance at this competition could result in being removed from the World team, both Alissa and Jeremy may have chosen not to risk it.

    Yes, if Alissa is injured, then she must withdraw. But if she isn't, she has no obligation to do so because there is absolutely no guarantee that Agnes or Caroline will perform well enough to regain the third spot.

  4. #64
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    Alissa's LP at the Challenge Cup.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF_hOWljg9A

  5. #65
    Custom Title merrywidow's Avatar
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    It looked to me as if she was test skating an injury & it didn't go well at all. In fact, she may have reinjured herself.

  6. #66
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    I can't bring myself to watch the video - but thanks for posting. My answer to the thread title is NO. But this is obvious as Gold isn't even named as an alternate. My bigger issue is a feel like we are going down this slippery slope of changing the rules and past practices (not always exactly the same thing), which I do not agree with. I think rules should be clearly written, published or well circulated, and applied evenly. If rules change, their should be a reasonable period of implementation, that in my opinion, should not occur mid-way through or during a season. World team is announced; we know the list of alternates, they have hopefully been training 'just in case,' and if someone withdraws, will be called.

    Rachel, imo, did deserve higher scores at nationals, however, that is another topic (as is whether Alissa was overmarked).

  7. #67
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    Even though the chance is small, there is still a possibility of the US getting 3 spots. If Wagner has the skate of her life, she may medal and Czisny just needs an average skate to get in top ten. However, if she skates like she did at Hague, I don't think she will be top ten.

  8. #68
    skating philosopher Mrs. P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Actually, the much-maligned Ms. Flatt turned in a really good free skate at US Nationals. The one thing she really screwed up was popping an axel? in the SP.

    For that matter, Ms. Flatt landed more stuff on a broken leg at Worlds than Ms. Czisny did at her recent competition in The Hague.

    No, I don't think Rachael should go to Worlds this year, but I think she should get a clean slate at the next Nationals and not be deliberately underscored, any more than Czisny should be deliberately overscored.
    I think that probably speaks more of Ms. Flatt's competitiveness. She has been 100 percent mentally in competition even when she is failing physically. For all her flaws, this is the one that explains why until this year she has remain relatively in the game.

    I thought Czisny was starting to get that competition nerve too, but she has been unraveling a bit in the last few competitions. I feel something is going on that isn't been talked about.

    By the way Doris, are you going all NYT style on us since reading that D/W article?

  9. #69
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    Oh just another year. Every national champion falls completely apart the year after.
    Alissa doesn't look well and hasn't looked well for a while. I'm never a fan of her, but if I were her, I would withdraw for my own sake. Bombing at Worlds would be the end of her career, just like it was for Flatt. If she wants to go to Sochi, which she clearly does, give this one up.
    Of course, Zawadzki isn't a better bet for three spots next year, but at least no one would really blame her for screwing up. Alissa's career gets saved, and Agnes getting a World debut, not a bad arrangement. I've always felt that Agnes has better scoring potential than Caroline Zhang, if she's on.
    Or, that Alissa is just having her period.

  10. #70
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    I feel something is going on that isn't been talked about.
    I think so, too.

    Like emma, I can't bring myself to watch the video. But I have never seen or heard tell of a skater at that level who missed every single one of her seven jumps in an LP.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidont View Post
    Or, that Alissa is just having her period.
    omg

  12. #72
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    By the way Doris, are you going all NYT style on us since reading that D/W article?
    It amused me to see skaters written of in that style. But in this case, I want to be very respectful to both Ms. Flatt & Ms. Czisny, because they both deserve it, and we have not been properly respectful, always, here at GS.

  13. #73
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    Wow, that video is spookily reminiscent of Alissa's GPF, only much worse. She appears to be experiencing pain in her landing foot, which explains why she has trouble with every jump. She seems to be favoring one leg in the footwork as well. She seems to be injured. If she is, she should withdraw ASAP so Agnes can be prepared to go to Nice. If Alissa is not injured, then we're in deep doo-doo.

  14. #74
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    I just brought myself to watch that video. She struggled with EVERY SINGLE jump in the routine and took a nasty fall near the end. This has to be the worst I've seen her do apart from the 4-fall routine she did at a GP event some years ago.

    Cause for alarm? Maybe, maybe not but USFS must, at a minimum, make some inquiries to Team Czisny about her fitness & readiness for Worlds and if she is injured, pull her out ASAP. We don't need a repeat of last year.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think so, too.

    Like emma, I can't bring myself to watch the video. But I have never seen or heard tell of a skater at that level who missed every single one of her seven jumps in an LP.
    Go ahead and watch it. Actually it's not THAT bad. To me, it was better than what the score sheet showed. It could be worse.

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