Wagner, Zhang, and Gold Olympic team in 2014 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Wagner, Zhang, and Gold Olympic team in 2014

cjuarez

Rinkside
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
I would like that team as well, Ashey, Gracie and Caroline, however Agnes and Mirai have a big chance as well as maybe another younger skater... a lot of things can happen in 2 years.
 

DianaSelene

Medalist
Joined
Aug 2, 2011
Truthfully, none of the current names except for Gold give me hope. They can all improve and get much better, but they are so unreliable and unpredictable that I don't even know. I LOVE Wagner's skating but she has often had trouble in the past and even now she doesn't have consistent 3-3 that I wish she would. I have a hard time seeing Caroline ever medaling at worlds or olympics in the future. Agnes is the same. Last season, she had pretty good short programs and terrible long programs. This year, except for nationals sp, she pretty much had a poor season. Mirai can't seem to get it together when she needs to and something really strange is going on with Alissa. The only reliable US skater I think I will see in Sochi is Gold. At least she has the jumps.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
i see. so every judging panel will follow the sterling example set at nationals?

and judges never, ever change their minds about PCS. nope, they didn't slam mao, 2-time world champion, when she had multiple not-so-outstanding outings. nope, ashley wagner's PCS didn't suddenly skyrocket at 4cc after she finally became national champion either.

Clearly Caroline and Ashley are identical examples. Both won a national title this year, medaled on the GP, skate relatively fast and have interesting choreography. Caroline has done everything Ashley has to have her PCS skyrocket, so we can send her to Worlds knowing that she will get great marks as well. How could I be so naive to miss the comparison?
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Clearly Caroline and Ashley are identical examples. Both won a national title this year, medaled on the GP, skate relatively fast and have interesting choreography. Caroline has done everything Ashley has to have her PCS skyrocket, so we can send her to Worlds knowing that she will get great marks as well. How could I be so naive to miss the comparison?

Caroline won an international event this season, but not a National one.
 

sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
I would like that team as well, Ashey, Gracie and Caroline, however Agnes and Mirai have a big chance as well as maybe another younger skater... a lot of things can happen in 2 years.

Mirai coming 4th last Olympics, If she puts it all together, she will still be the biggest medal contender for the US, she still has 2 more seasons to improve
I can definitely see Gold, Mirai, Ashley in 2014 team Alternate: Zhang.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Mirai coming 4th last Olympics.

That probably was her career peak. Remember she skated by far the performances of her life there, and still barely came 4th. It doesnt HAVE to be that way, she certainly has enough talent to make it otherwise, but she has to be giving 110% from here. No more time to waste, and I dont see that happening.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
i see. so every judging panel will follow the sterling example set at nationals?

and judges never, ever change their minds about PCS. nope, they didn't slam mao, 2-time world champion, when she had multiple not-so-outstanding outings. nope, ashley wagner's PCS didn't suddenly skyrocket at 4cc after she finally became national champion either.

Umm Wagner beat Asada in PCS in the LP at 4CCs. That wouldnt have happened in a million years a short while ago. Asada in fact is an example of dropping PCS after some reduced results, and Wagner an example of rised PCS with a National title so strange examples.
 

macy

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
my ideal team is ashley, agnes, and gracie. of course that depends on how the next 2 years go.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Umm Wagner beat Asada in PCS in the LP at 4CCs. That wouldnt have happened in a million years a short while ago. Asada in fact is an example of dropping PCS after some reduced results, and Wagner an example of rised PCS with a National title so strange examples.
Wagner skated LIGHTS OUT at 4CC and deserved to have a huge PCS mark compared to previous outings.
 

drivingmissdaisy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Of course she did. However if she were still viewed as the #4-#6 American she never would have gotten them, deserved or not.

ITA. Plus with the event in the US it would be hard to place Ashley too far below Mao since she is the national champ skating before a home country audience. The PCS gap was huge when they skated in Japan, so I'm curious to see how they are marked in an European event.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Ashley didn't have the attack in Japan when she faced Mao the first time that she did at 4CC. It's not that all of a sudden she's viewed as the American Champion so her PCS goes up a gazillion points. She was, at 4CC, in many respects, a totally different skater than earlier in the season in terms of speed, attack, polish, and cleanliness (she made some minor mistakes on jumps in Japan). If Ashley had been the #4 skater in the US but skated like that, she would have been CLOSE to the same score and still would have won, but I think it's a chicken and egg thing - if Ashley hadn't won Nationals she wouldn't have skated like that. It was like a switch went on when she won the US title and she's all of a sudden turned into a "LOOK AT ME" and "BEAT THIS" kind of skater in terms of presentation. Hopefully she can carry that mentality over into Worlds.
 

pangtongfan

Match Penalty
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
If Ashley had come 4th at U.S Nationals she never would have won 4CCs this year even had she done the exact same performances with the exact same spark and attack (which I agree would also be unlikely if she werent U.S Champion but that is aside my point). I would bet huge money on that. Keep in mind her win there wasnt a slam dunk, some people debated it, so it wouldnt have taken much to reverse it. I am sure she would have scored higher than any of her previous outings this year, with higher PCS regardless, but still not enough to win over someone like Mao skating quite well (even with some mistakes). Dont get me wrong, I am not saying she didnt deserve to win 4CCs (she did IMO) but lets not be naive to things please.
 
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sky_fly20

Match Penalty
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Ashley didn't have the attack in Japan when she faced Mao the first time that she did at 4CC. It's not that all of a sudden she's viewed as the American Champion so her PCS goes up a gazillion points. She was, at 4CC, in many respects, a totally different skater than earlier in the season in terms of speed, attack, polish, and cleanliness (she made some minor mistakes on jumps in Japan). If Ashley had been the #4 skater in the US but skated like that, she would have been CLOSE to the same score and still would have won, but I think it's a chicken and egg thing - if Ashley hadn't won Nationals she wouldn't have skated like that. It was like a switch went on when she won the US title and she's all of a sudden turned into a "LOOK AT ME" and "BEAT THIS" kind of skater in terms of presentation. Hopefully she can carry that mentality over into Worlds.

well it's called National reputation
and the fact that 2012 4CC was held in the US , she obviously had the highest chance of winning it.
 

herios

Medalist
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
This thread is completely ridiculous. Just remember a year ago, everybody was betting on Mirai Nagasu. And look what happened.
You cannot guess two years from now what will happen in the ever volatile US ladies field.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
well it's called National reputation
and the fact that 2012 4CC was held in the US , she obviously had the highest chance of winning it.
Totally disagree - Mao is the reigning Japanese Champion (so Japanese National Champion Rep points negate American National Champion Rep points) and has a much longer-standing well regarded reputation internationally than Ashley (multiple World Medals, OSM). If we are going to go that direction that it's reputation scoring, if it was anyone who had the highest chance of winning based on reputation, it was Mao. Ashley had to skate a near-perfect competition to beat Mao, even as US Champion, and needed Mao to make some mistakes to secure it. (I do not subscribe to National Reputation points as much as most of you seem to, though)

Herios is right, though, speculation this far out from Sochi is ridiculous. This is probably why 4C is being rehashed.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
In 2008, the top two skaters at Nationals were Mirai Nagasu and Rachel Flatt. The two that went to the Vancouver games: Nagasu and Flatt. The bronze medalist in both seasons - Ashley Wagner.

That stated, a year ago, Nagasu had that mediocre Nationals skate and very few were betting on her.
 
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