2012 Challenge Cup

[Olympia]

I almost think it's unfair to talk about sex appeal in ladies' singles skating, because the competitors are so young. In fact, they're often even younger than their chronological ages because they live such sheltered lives by nature of their intense hours of practice and competition. They don't hang out at the mall with friends, they don't sit for hours in their room watching music videos, they don't go to their prom. Occasionally you get a skater who's lovelier, taller, older, and then this quality might or might not come into play. Witt was an obvious example--and didn't she know it. But these days, where do the ladies have the time in a routine to exhibit any sizzle? They're too busy maximizing points. If you want electricity, ice dancing is the place to go, for the most part. The ladies are generally older and taller, and they've got a cute guy right there pledging undying love through sinuous music.

Like many singles skaters, Alissa is rather reserved. I'm sure most skaters are told by their coaches to behave and not offend anyone, because they don't want judges to look askance at them. Every point counts. Confidence is another matter. It would be great if Alissa could muster some up. What one of you said about confidence is certainly true. Has anyone analyzed Madonna's face? She's not pretty, really--never was. But she just emanates confidence. The same was true of Barbra Streisand in her heyday. Even leaving sex appeal aside, their every gesture says, "I'm the one you've been waiting for, and you're not going to hear another voice like mine anytime soon." (With Streisand, this was actually true.) Maybe they could give tutorials!

[R.D.]

Ouch reading this thread shows what at tough spot it is to be at top when you fail to deliver a gold if you are coming from the USA. It happened to Rachel, it happened to Alissa, and I bet it happened to Sasha too.

You bet it did. I think it's only recently (and in retrospect) that her contributions to American ladies' skating have been truly appreciated by the majority of US fans.

Currently no one is getting it done for the US- the best we can do at worlds seems to be 5th now. That makes Cohen's 1.5 fall performances and silver medal finishes look astounding by comparison...

But these days, where do the ladies have the time in a routine to exhibit any sizzle? They're too busy maximizing points.

You're onto something. I think this is one of the reasons you see it more commonly among professional skaters- they have more freedom to think outside the box/step out of their comfort zone. Their job is to play to the AUDIENCE rather than to the judges. And this can be a tough adjustment for eligible skaters- I remember the year when SOI mixed up pros and eligibles (Olympians) in their show. I think this was 2010. And it was EASY to tell the pros from the amateurs in a) the amount of confidence they exuded, b) their audience projection (NIGHT and DAY difference in some cases), and c) their ability to entertain/think outside the box. Now, it's not all bad, because one thing you did get from the amateurs was harder jumps, and sometimes more jumps (since they were still training them). But you could tell they were still in their shell, stuck in the mindset of pleasing judges. They SKATE rather than PERFORM. They forget to let loose and let the joy of skating pour out. Takes a couple years for that to wear off I think. I saw the transformation with Cohen for instance. Only this year did I feel she finally let her guard down, stop just skating and begin performing like the other pro skaters.

Like many singles skaters, Alissa is rather reserved. I'm sure most skaters are told by their coaches to behave and not offend anyone, because they don't want judges to look askance at them.

Yes, this comes back to what I said above. But even in exhibitions you see this phenomenon a lot. Give her 3-4 years as a professional skater and perhaps that confidence will develop...

[Skater Boy]

Ah maybe we should focus on ice presence rather than sexiness. I am not sure anyone right now is that sexy male or female. Yes, Chan and Czisny suffer from being rather introverted on the ice and not showy and flamboyant ala Takahashi.None of the top ice dancers though attractive are that sexy - suppose Andrew Poje but everyone else is more Fred and Ginger than latin lover or seductress. (Of course I am not thinking so much of those off the podium so there may be some out there. mAHYBE THE THIRD rUSSIAN DANCE TEAM PERHAPS???

[R.D.]

QUICK REFERENCE

Czisny's Challenge Cup score (152) was ~2 points below what Rachel Flatt scored at Worlds last year during "tibiagate".

Her score would have placed her 13th at worlds last year and 14th at 2010 worlds

Take-home message: She MUST do better for us to have any hope, and MUCH better to take some of the burden off Wagner.

[Mathman]

^ Or you could look at it this way. If Alissa can get 14th at Worlds when she messes up every one of her jumps, think what she can score if she hits some of them!

[icellist]

^ Or you could look at it this way. If Alissa can get 14th at Worlds when she messes up every one of her jumps, think what she can score if she hits some of them!

i like your thinking! lol

[R.D.]

^ Or you could look at it this way. If Alissa can get 14th at Worlds when she messes up every one of her jumps, think what she can score if she hits some of them!

I suppose that's the "glass half-full" way of looking at it...

Still, it is putting more and more pressure on Wagner to be at or better than she was at 4CC.

[os168]

I might be the only one have faith in Alissa. She might have bummed out at this particular competition, but surely that will make her even more determined at worlds. Pundits tends to ever only based their predictions on the results of past; my view is you can't put really predict someone's future without taking account of the intangibles like self determination, intellect, smarts, drive, personal circumstance and their ability to make the most of what they got at the most critical competitions, where are as much as a test of character, luck as well as their sporting abilities.

Alissa has shown she can come back and put out her best when it mattered last year, and her emotional vulnerability and availability are actually qualities I found appealing from her as a skater (Even though this program is surely bit of a doozy, but she really doesn't deserve half of the criticism thrown at her as much as half the praises that goes out to the inflated Kostner when they pretty much have adapted the same strategy to win, except obviously the jump aspect failed her at this competition).

Maybe people should give her a chance before reaching any conclusions. She earned her spot and arguably had her spot unfairly taken from her at 4CCs. I'd love her to do well along with Jeremy for the US, though Ashley for me is looking very good right now with my favourite FS program from the ladies this season. Men's competition is going to be really exciting and hopefully result is not predictable, with Joubert competing in probably his last, and I'd just love Hanyu (in his senior debut season, one of my top 3 fav FS program, the other being Daisuke and Jeremy) making the podium with Daisuke. Though Patrick sure is another shoo in for the gold, the only difference is how many falls this time and how much more improvement he can show in his expressions which are getting better all the time. Will he finally convince me he is a skater I can grow to really like and eventually become a fan? That is the debatable question