- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
I've seen the axel twist lift in the code of points, but I've never actually seen anyone do it. Anyone have any videos? Any reason why no one does it?
Axel Twist Lift
- Thread starter Macassar88
- Start date
Valova and Vasiliev are the only team I'm aware of offhand who have done this move in competition -- I don't know of any in the IJS era.
Why not? I would guess because the level 4 double axel twist is worth less than a level 1 triple twist from the normal flip/lutz takeoff, and the triple axel twist is too hard.
Why not? I would guess because the level 4 double axel twist is worth less than a level 1 triple twist from the normal flip/lutz takeoff, and the triple axel twist is too hard.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
That looked nice. I wish that people would do it.
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- Jul 26, 2003
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Cherkasova & Shakrai used to do the axel entry twists
1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSp_pl5B6Xk
1979
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSp_pl5B6Xk
1981 World champs Vorobieva and Lisovski (Moskvina's 1st championship pair) did both a 3z split twist lift and and 2a twist lift in the same long program.
1982 Euros LP
3z split twist lift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bcGSbZFmwG0#t=120s
2a twist lift (note John Curry is the analyst for CBS here along with color commentator Tim Ryan. Curry tended to call twist lifts throws and identify the takeoff edge in those days. The terminology had not been standardized yet as high flying release moves were still relatively novel.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bcGSbZFmwG0#t=120s
1981 Worlds LP (Here they do them back to back: 1st the axel then the lutz. Peggy and Dick are the callers alongside Jim McKay. Peggy also calls one of the twists a throw (the lutz)).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cwjEDocFzRE#t=60s
1982 Euros LP
3z split twist lift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bcGSbZFmwG0#t=120s
2a twist lift (note John Curry is the analyst for CBS here along with color commentator Tim Ryan. Curry tended to call twist lifts throws and identify the takeoff edge in those days. The terminology had not been standardized yet as high flying release moves were still relatively novel.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bcGSbZFmwG0#t=120s
1981 Worlds LP (Here they do them back to back: 1st the axel then the lutz. Peggy and Dick are the callers alongside Jim McKay. Peggy also calls one of the twists a throw (the lutz)).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cwjEDocFzRE#t=60s
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2012
I think its because an axel entry twist lift is worth alot less than the usual lutz twist lift.. though i think that the axel is much cooler ;D
this is one of the reasons why people say that CoP is taking creative and different moves away from skating and is wayyy too structured.
Could it also maybe because in the short program the lutz entry lift is required?
this is one of the reasons why people say that CoP is taking creative and different moves away from skating and is wayyy too structured.
Could it also maybe because in the short program the lutz entry lift is required?
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
I think that that's part of it. The other thing is that you'd either have to do a level 4 double axel lift or a triple axel lift to get more points than a group three or group 4 level four lift which people don't have problems with.
Well, what's happened is that some moves that were creative and different and almost never seen were explicitly given value in the IJS rules and therefore they have become more common -- in some cases extremely common and no longer creative or different at all.
In other cases the rare moves are not rewarded, and often using them could use up slots where elements with guaranteed higher base marks and/or probably much higher GOEs could go instead, so the skaters choose not to waste their element slots on low-value elements or their transitions on risky, energy-intensive moves.
In this particular case, I think the fact that the IJS rules gave an explicit value to a move that hadn't been seen for about 20 years was a way to encourage something a little different from what everyone else had been doing -- but because the point value is not greater than that of other moves with comparable difficulty, it hasn't proven worth doing after all.
