Gold at worlds: Virtue/Moir or Davis/White?

[romanoff81]

So were less than two weeks from worlds and alot is riding on this outcome if the canadians win they probably continue till Sochi skate at worlds in their hometown, if its Davis and White, Virtue and Moir will probably leave Canton and go elsewhere as i`ve said in another post i am neutral here but i do Believe Virtue and Moir are superior, much better lines, Skating skills, lifts, connection, unison they also took a big risk with Funny face yeah i know its Audrey and Fred but that movie is not well known at all i`m sure the judges had never heard of it before the music does not help them at all, while Strauss is not exactly the most difficult piece of music you can interpret the music carries you but there is very few new elements in the FD of Davis and White i think they are in trouble you thoughts.

[Skater Boy]

I think Virtue and Moir are better than Davis and White but this sounds like a contradiction D and W will win gold. If D and W can score so high pcs in latin inspired music which they just don't have it the hips, the passion, the smoldering lust etc. then I think they will win. However if V and M find a new vehicle they could topple D and W. I really think technically they are evenly matched but I think the judges should raise the marks for V and M on the pcs but for whatever reason D and W are getting the marks though I agree with Romanoff for the most part.

[romanoff81]

V&M got higher PCS at 4cc for their latin sd i think they will have their best outing of it at worlds and be ahead of Davis and White after that its all she wrote their FD is just too strong on TES for Davis and white to catch up.

[emdee]

I too think it will be a V&M Worlds.
They have a tendency to build upward and are real fighters.

[Mathman]

Thanks for joining us, emdee. Welcome to Golden Skate!

[skateluvr]

Does it matter? Both are so deserving...I'd like to see the wealth spread around...Gold for Davis/White. If Virtue/Moir repeat, they will be called the greatest ice dancers in history. I am glad I never got to be an ice dance judge. Actually, I love the Shibs-how about an upset?

[lcd]

Man, another variation on this (well earned but still...) never ending debate?!? Hasn't it been pretty well vetted that these two teams are outstanding, and razor thin margins separates them, that people can theorize all they want about the implications of a certain absence of a US judge on the panel, and then take things quite far on their own and speculate that whomever loses should change coaches that.... do we really need another thread to discuss?

I enjoy them both. Thoroughly. What will indeed make it interesting for a change, as Skateluvr suggests, is if there is less predictability around the event.

[Mrs. P]

It will come down to levels. That is what have made the difference all season long. Their PCS and +GOE are nearly the same at this point.

In the 4CC SD, for example, D/W had 1 point higher BV because they hit a level 4 on their twizzles and V/M did not. D/W got 6.21 in +GOE while V/M got 6.42. D/W were ahead in PCS by .79 of a point.

In the FD, D/W were hammered on their levels — half of their elements were level 3. V/M got all level 4 except for their circular step sequence. As a result, V/M had a 3.5 advantage on their BV. V/M got 12.57 +GOE while D/W got 12.01. They we're practically tied in PCS with D/W winning there by just .07 of a point.

[Mrs. P]

Man, another variation on this (well earned but still...) never ending debate?!? Hasn't it been pretty well vetted that these two teams are outstanding, and razor thin margins separates them, that people can theorize all they want about the implications of a certain absence of a US judge on the panel, and then take things quite far on their own and speculate that whomever loses should change coaches that.... do we really need another thread to discuss?

I enjoy them both. Thoroughly. What will indeed make it interesting for a change, as Skateluvr suggests, is if there is less predictability around the event.

I agree. I do not particularly enjoy such debate because it really blows up at times and all the trolls will come out and say how Tessa's fat or Meryl can't dance or whatever.

I also appreciate what both teams bring to the sport and I think we're in for a treat at Worlds.

The more interesting question for me is who will end up in the top five? Or who will get the bronze, esp. if P/B ends up missing out on the event? (I hope not!)

[skateluvr]

Does anyone remember, who doesn't really follow ice dance, the silver medalists OD from Vancouver? I remember Mahler, but not as well as I recall T&D's Bolero and the Paso Doble, which was long ago. The busyness and frenetic pace of skating is no more evident than in ice dance. There are no pictures that stick in your mind. The bronze medalists in Vancouver were memorable for all the wrong reasons. If something doesn't touch you on an emotional level, you won't remember if you watch a lot of skating.

I like how the Russian teams under 6.0 used to do a move three times, it made a vivid picture, and repetition is part of a great dance, skate or piece of music. Your mind needs to latch onto something. I wonder if older posters get what I am trying to say. Why is it T&D programs are vividly remembered by so many? I think D/W are wonderful, but I don't even recall their skating in Vancouver. But Mahler by V/M stayed in my mind and I wanted to watch it several times. What makes a great ice dance program-or at least one everyone remembers. Mrs P's posts says it comes down to the levels who will win. Besides the technical wizardry of the top teams, does anyone's program touch your heart so you'll remember it 20 years from now? Not so much for me. I recall Toller Cranston saying after Vancouver that no one could recall (in Canada) the gold medal winning skates because they didn't touch people on an emotional level. I think there is truth to this.

So, it comes down to the levels. Ok.

[Olympia]

You echo my worries! I don't want to participate in skating fandom by collecting and comparing lists of decimals. I do that for my taxes. I agree that the Mahler is the 2010 ice dance that will stay with me. But this year, there is one program that will endure in my emotions, and it's Davis and White's Die Fledermaus program. That's why, though these two teams are very close in terms of quality, I'm rooting for D/W this season at Worlds for the gold medal. Do not try to change my mind with decimals!

[sky_fly20]

Virtue and Moir

[Mrs. P]

You echo my worries! I don't want to participate in skating fandom by collecting and comparing lists of decimals. I do that for my taxes. I agree that the Mahler is the 2010 ice dance that will stay with me. But this year, there is one program that will endure in my emotions, and it's Davis and White's Die Fledermaus program. That's why, though these two teams are very close in terms of quality, I'm rooting for D/W this season at Worlds for the gold medal. Do not try to change my mind with decimals!

Oh Olympia, didn't mean to wear you out with math. Just noting past competitions, that's all. I figured that's the best neutral way into this discussion.

And for the record, I loved D/W's Phantom of the Opera program, especially that awesome lift where Meryl is standing on one skate on Charlie's leg while he is also skating on one skate.

[NorthernDancers]

I enjoy both teams, but I prefer V/M. I'm a fan of lines, edges, details, musicality, expression, unison, etc. What V/M have done this year is really unbelievable in style, concept, and sheer musicality, not to mention the extreme quality. These teams match pretty closely on levels, but I think the judges have missed the mark on the difference in PCS. In my opinion, V/M are in a league of their own. D/W seem to rely more on speed and power, almost to the point of losing control. The difference is dance first vs athletics first. I prefer the former.

But it doesn't matter what I think. It depends on what side of the dance vs athletics first debate the judges fall which team finishes first. I think the TES will be close. It will then come down to the second mark. The current fashion seems to value speed over dance. It just happened with a couple teams at Canadians. It's not a good development in my mind. I'm hoping V/M finally get recognized in PCS for the masterpiece they have created this season.

As to the assertion that V/M will quit or switch coaches if they get silver, I highly doubt it. They'll choose a different program next year. They will skate at home at Worlds in London, and then they might as well stay at least to Sochi. They are strong competitors, and are finally feeling good to train fully. It is also ridiculous to think that once you win, you always win. I think these 2 teams will trade top spots regularly between now and Sochi.

[ImaginaryPogue]

The one you don't want to win will win. So it'll be Ilynikh/Katsalpov and Bobrova/Soloviev tying for Gold.