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Thread: Gold at worlds: Virtue/Moir or Davis/White?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    Oh Olympia, didn't mean to wear you out with math. Just noting past competitions, that's all. I figured that's the best neutral way into this discussion.

    And for the record, I loved D/W's Phantom of the Opera program, especially that awesome lift where Meryl is standing on one skate on Charlie's leg while he is also skating on one skate.
    My absolute favorite D/W programs are Samson and Delilah and Bollywood. Both of these are iconic in my mind. Bollywood especially. Just amazing.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDancers View Post
    My absolute favorite D/W programs are Samson and Delilah and Bollywood. Both of these are iconic in my mind. Bollywood especially. Just amazing.
    Agreed.

  3. #18
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    The team that does its best on the day will win. Neither team can afford any error.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFiguring View Post
    The team that does its best on the day will win. Neither team can afford any error.
    Agreed! The teams are pretty darn close IMHO and their styles are different.

  5. #20
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    After the FD's at the GPF I couldn't decide which was better, D&W or V&M. But it was sheer heaven for a dance fan to have two such teams doing great dances.

    My heart is always with Tessa & Scott but that doesn't blind me to the improvements that D&W have made this season. If either team makes a mistake, that will decide it. If both go clean, I give it to Tessa & Scott on the basis of the better SD. The FD's are pretty much a dead heat pointwise but my preference is Funny Face, one of my favourite Fred Astaire movies.

  6. #21
    Like subtlety in ice dancing Serious Business's Avatar
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    In head to head competition this season, D/W took one and V/M took the other. But if you look at the scores from both those competitions and consider others, D/W has a definite edge. They do have the highest scores in the SD and FD this season. And then there was their record-breaking PCS at Cup of Russia for the FD. Even at 4CC in the FD, where D/W were decidedly not at their best, D/W managed to outscore V/M on PCS. It's going to be close, barring mistakes or bad judging, but if I were a bettor the money would be on Davis/White.

    Now, that's my prediction of how it'll turn out. My preference? Actually the same. Virtue/Moir is my favorite ice dancing team of all time, but I really don't like their current FD. On the other hand, Davis/White's SD and FD this season delight me. The FD, in particular, is a masterpiece. It's joyful and energetic, but still plays with the many nuances in the music. And perhaps most effective of all, it puts Charlie in the spotlight often. Charlie is possibly the greatest skater ever in terms of skating skills... blade and edge control and speed and power. Seeing him carve such forceful yet intricate patterns on the ice in Die Fledermaus while displaying total joy is one of the most wonderful sights in skating. Not to say that Meryl is a slouch at all. She keeps up with him and uses his power with ease. She's also a better performer. But when one half of your team is one of the wonders of the skating world, it never hurts to highlight him a lot. Another thing I love about Die Fledermaus is that it uses one piece of music. There are no jarring edits, no switching to some other piece. And yet the music is still more dynamic and more varied in rhythm than most other FD. It's whole and coherent without being monotonous. I want Davis/White to win Worlds just to validate the FD. To let other skaters and choreographers know that this is how great ice dancing programs can be.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serious Business View Post
    In head to head competition this season, D/W took one and V/M took the other. But if you look at the scores from both those competitions and consider others, D/W has a definite edge. They do have the highest scores in the SD and FD this season. And then there was their record-breaking PCS at Cup of Russia for the FD. Even at 4CC in the FD, where D/W were decidedly not at their best, D/W managed to outscore V/M on PCS. It's going to be close, barring mistakes or bad judging, but if I were a bettor the money would be on Davis/White.

    Now, that's my prediction of how it'll turn out. My preference? Actually the same. Virtue/Moir is my favorite ice dancing team of all time, but I really don't like their current FD. On the other hand, Davis/White's SD and FD this season delight me. The FD, in particular, is a masterpiece. It's joyful and energetic, but still plays with the many nuances in the music. And perhaps most effective of all, it puts Charlie in the spotlight often. Charlie is possibly the greatest skater ever in terms of skating skills... blade and edge control and speed and power. Seeing him carve such forceful yet intricate patterns on the ice in Die Fledermaus while displaying total joy is one of the most wonderful sights in skating. Not to say that Meryl is a slouch at all. She keeps up with him and uses his power with ease. She's also a better performer. But when one half of your team is one of the wonders of the skating world, it never hurts to highlight him a lot. Another thing I love about Die Fledermaus is that it uses one piece of music. There are no jarring edits, no switching to some other piece. And yet the music is still more dynamic and more varied in rhythm than most other FD. It's whole and coherent without being monotonous. I want Davis/White to win Worlds just to validate the FD. To let other skaters and choreographers know that this is how great ice dancing programs can be.
    Interesting post - While I agree with many others that D/W skate this program very well and may well win them Worlds this year - it will be because this music piece is popular and actually carries the FD and the choreography plays to D/W's strengths and hides their weakness'. In terms of D/W, the majority of this FD is recycled steps/spins etc from previous years - mind you masterfully blended in choreography and well executed but not innovative. This FD is not pushing boundaries. I'll be fine with D/W winning this year but I agree with others on this board that Samson and Delilah is D/W's strongest FD to date.

    ETA: I think the SD will play a pivotal outcome in determining Worlds this year. It will be interesting to see how the judging will be for PCS at Worlds for the SD and where Cappellini and Lanotte fit since I think theirs is the strongest SD of the year if well performed. In addition, if P/B are not at Worlds, the Europeans will push for C/L...
    Last edited by heyhey; 03-15-2012 at 07:25 AM.

  8. #23
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    i doubt the Europeans will push for C&L all that much-I expect to see Bobrova & Soloviev be the European choice for the podium to replace P&B. And my guess is that if P&B are not at Worlds, that Weaver & Poje will take the bronze, partially because I expect the audience in Nice to totally love their Je Suis Malade FD, and to not particularly take B&S's efforts for this year to their hearts, but most especially because W&P were the bronze medallists at 4CC's and in 4th place at GPF, and have been skating awesomely all year.

    Now I like C&L a lot, and particularly their SD. However, C&L couldn't even beat I&K for third place at Europeans (They were 4th in the FD, and 4th overall.) And in the SD, they were in 6th place at Europeans (which was a shock to me, I must say). So perhaps next year.

    Also, I fail to see why picking audience unfriendly music is a good thing. Frankly, I think picking such music shows a lack of sense in those that pick it, and I'd mark down for it rather than up. However, from a "who wins" point of view, COP only cares that if you are telling a story, that the story be easily understandable by the audience, and that the music has a well defined beat and that you skate to it.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 03-15-2012 at 02:00 PM.

  9. #24
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    This "D/W's music is easier to skate to" is completely wrong and a tiring argument to read.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    You echo my worries! I don't want to participate in skating fandom by collecting and comparing lists of decimals. I do that for my taxes. I agree that the Mahler is the 2010 ice dance that will stay with me. But this year, there is one program that will endure in my emotions, and it's Davis and White's Die Fledermaus program. That's why, though these two teams are very close in terms of quality, I'm rooting for D/W this season at Worlds for the gold medal. Do not try to change my mind with decimals!
    I totally agree, and I don't mind spell it out

    I love V/M's olympic programs, especially the FD and OD. But D/W simply have better programs this year and I love their FD so much.

    Apart from programs, I'm kind of anoyed by Scott's attitude. Even at the kiss and cry in olympic, when they know that they practically won after the FD, Scott's expression was not joy like most of the winners have, but kind of like contempt combined with anger " I beat you!" The GPF was a worse show of personality imo. Even during 4CC, it seemed Charlie was all out trying to be friendly but Scott just ignored him. On another occasion, during Skate Canada, all other skaters were very friendly to fans, signing autograph and taking pictures , Scott just lowered his head, not watching or acknoledging anybody and rushed to the car immediately. Somebody commented why would he care the fans, he's already very famous. It's ok, they don't have to do it, but doing it does seem to help the sport in some way.
    I think Tessa is a very nice and sweet person. Win or loose, she stays graceful. I still love Scott on the ice, as a skater, but not much as a person.
    I had no feeling about D/W before this season, especially Davis. There was no chemistry between them. Her starting pose is still bother me ( the Pouting/breathing right before they start), but other than that, she's really lovely this year. White is always charming, but sometimes he was a bit over exurberant imo. But in the FD this year, they are just perfect!

    So to conclude, I predict D/W win if both teams get the same levels and skate clean, and I will be happy for them. Scott seems need soem opportunity to learn good sportmanship. I still think V/M are better ice dances but they don't have the right vehicles this year.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Also, I fail to see why picking audience unfriendly music is a good thing.
    No one said it was a good thing. They said it is easier to skate to, and it is.

    Hopefully it will be different at Worlds, but at the moment, I don't see any in-depth character development in D/W's FD. Yes, I see that it is light and joyful, but D/W claimed that there was more to it than that. I distinctly remember Charlie saying that he's giving Meryl some "sarcastic smiles" and what not. Where is that happening, exactly? I don't see any of it. What I do see is too people racing around and being upbeat and happy, which is great, but they've done that lots of times before (see Charleston OD, Kalinka, etc.). If DF wasn't such a great piece of music, I'd be bored. However, because I love listening to DF, I would watch the program no matter what they're doing.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by all that View Post
    I distinctly remember Charlie saying that he's giving Meryl some "sarcastic smiles" and what not.
    In a test skate Charlie only got a level two for his sarcastic smile, so they decided to replace it by a level 3 cheerful grin.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    In a test skate Charlie only got a level two for his sarcastic smile, so they decided to replace it by a level 3 cheerful grin.
    I wouldn't be surprised. Charlie also gets level 4s for his butterfly leap. That's why he's included it in every FD he's skated as a senior.
    Last edited by all that; 03-15-2012 at 07:19 PM.

  14. #29
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    All i know is Scott Moir might go postal if he doesn`t get his way i dread the thought of what he might say if V&M finish second to their training mates he even said that in December at the gp final ``thought were are bitter know see us if were in the same position at worlds`` those were his exact words.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by romanoff81 View Post
    ``thought were are bitter know see us if were in the same position at worlds`` those were his exact words.
    I seriously doubt those were his exact words.

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