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Thread: Gold at worlds: Virtue/Moir or Davis/White?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    D/W will win I'm fairly certain. I think 4CCs result was a fluke. D/W are clearly the stronger team at this point. V/M are more in line with P/B.
    Well I think that V/M are better ice dancers than D/W. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

  2. #77
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    I think Doris explained this earlier this season — but there are a lot of different Latin dance styles. I agree with Doris who said (please tell me if I'm wrong if it wasn't) that D/W's is more street dance Latin dance while perhaps V/M is a bit more classical with a bit of sauciness.

    I think both work given their skill and personalities. And given how close their SD scores have been all season, I think the judges do too. Again, the difference has only been in levels (see GPF for V/M) +GOE on PCS has been on par all season long.

    (Which is again why I prefer not to predict who will win).

  3. #78
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Not quite. It's a JLo club dance about folks drinking-"put your drink down, get on the floor". Both teams have picked SD music that is more suited to their strengths.

    And wouldn't it be stupid if they picked something that played to their weaknesses? OTOH, that's exactly what D&W did last year with Tango.

    IP, you're right, I missed that they had one lift downgraded at CoR. OTOH, V&M had lifts downgraded at Canadian Nationals. In general, both teams have little trouble with their lifts.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by icefan1005 View Post
    Well I think that V/M are better ice dancers than D/W. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
    Well, maybe before the injury, but I think during their time off, D/W have managed to pull ahead and really establish themselves as the number 1 team in the World. It doesn't mean V/M can't bounce back and rise to the top, but I don't think it will be this season. Too soon.

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    Mrs. P, it was jcoates who had that explanation, I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    IP, you're right, I missed that they had one lift downgraded at CoR. OTOH, V&M had lifts downgraded at Canadian Nationals. In general, both teams have little trouble with their lifts.
    V/M also had two level two lifts at Finlandia in the SD and FD. My assertion was less about one or the other team than the implicit feeling that because it generally happens, it must always happen. P/B got hammered on levels at the Euros SD, but it was Russian politicking that placed B/S ahead. V/M had a level three lift at Nationals, but that was because the tech specialist is a friend of Meryl's. D/W had issues with levels at 4CC, and that was payback for the GPF computer error (no mention of V/M's levels, which were lower than at the GPF, of course).

    silverlake, I agree that D/W have established themselves as the world number one, but I'm a little startled to hear you say that V/M are more on P/B's level. Given how tenous P/B's position actually is seeing the fast rising W/P and the Shibs around them, I completely disagree with that assertion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    V/M also had two level two lifts at Finlandia in the SD and FD. My assertion was less about one or the other team than the implicit feeling that because it generally happens, it must always happen. P/B got hammered on levels at the Euros SD, but it was Russian politicking that placed B/S ahead. V/M had a level three lift at Nationals, but that was because the tech specialist is a friend of Meryl's. D/W had issues with levels at 4CC, and that was payback for the GPF computer error (no mention of V/M's levels, which were lower than at the GPF, of course).
    I do not for one second believe that V&M had a lift downgraded at Canadians because the technical specialist is a frend of Meryl's. That is so ridiculous I can't believe you posted it with a straight face. P&B got hammered at Euros because of mistakes, not politiking. Skaters make mistakes and have small errors all of the time which impact on their levels but not their overall performance.

    I find it interesting after fans complained for years that the errors in the skating were not reflected in the marking that now that the errors in the skating ARE reflected in the marking, fans are saying that the calling and the marking of downgraded elements is due to politiking.

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    I think IP's comment was tongue in cheek.

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    The claims of Euros politicking may be due in part to the fact that Madame Piseev (Alla SHEKHOVTSEVA) was the referee on the Ice Dance panel.

    The technical panel consisted of Linda LEAVER (USA), Marika HUMPHREYS-BARANOVA (GBR) and Sylwia NOWAK-TREBACKA (POL). The Brit judge is known to be a stickler for levels.

    The judging panels were heavily weighted on the Eastern European side:
    SD: FIN, BLR, CZE, ISR, RUS, EST, SUI, FRA, AUT. That there were 3 judges from former SSRs might have helped B/S's cause (they beat P/B in the SD).
    FD: HUN, FIN, GEO, BUL, BLR, SVK, SUI, AUT, FRA. Only two SSRs but no RUS judge in the FD might have had an impact, but I think P/B winning the FD was more due to the fact that B/S's FD is a stinker.

  9. #84
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    IP, what I was trying to say was that if both teams skate as well as they can, they will get level 4's on lifts. Of course, if they don't, all bets are off, which is a good thing.

    I'm generally fairly happy with the technical calling-usually with some judicious use of youtube, and rewatching the skill, I can pick up on what the callers were objecting to. However, IMO, some of the callers are rather lax-I'd call more things than they do. I'm particularly thinking of the GPF callers this year, and the 2009 Worlds callers.

    Another thing I want to stress: since 2010, these 2 teams have been neck and neck, and way ahead of the pack.

    Neither V&M nor D&W are closer to P&B/W&P/S&S/B&S than they are to each other. I don't like to see aspersions cast against either team. In my view, they are both very worthy World Champions.

    And again, neither team is the reincarnation of Torvill & Dean, and claims that that they are are just wrong, IMO.

    I see them more as similar to the 1990-1994 era: U&Z, K&P, D&D, and the young G&P, all teams traded World Championships medals around with each other. Only in this era, there are 2 teams trading medals instead of 4.

    U&Z had the best compulsories, and great balletic positions, but were a little slow, but very sexy. They only won one Worlds, but IMO they were politicked out of another, and on balance, I would have had them win in 1994 Olympics instead of G&P.
    K&P had the best toe point type stuff (Marina has legs 40 miles long) but were mostly pretty boring IMO, but had the "it's our turn" thing going after 4 years behind B&B. I liked them best in 1987...and their 1992 Air FD was nice, and I had no problem with them winning Olympics with it vs. Duchesnay's West Side Story. In the 1992 time frame, they were faster than U&Z, a bit.
    G&P were speed merchants, and not as refined as they would become later.
    D&D weren't refined, but they had mad audience appealing skills. They also did the "character of the dance" thing very well in the OSP. They were viewed at the time as very innovative.

    In the 1990 to 1994 era, I liked U&Z best, D&D second. (remember, these are preferences, rather than thinking who should have won what under the rules current then.)

    In short, all 4 teams were very good, all won World Championships, all won Olympic medals of one or another color, and which you preferred said as much about you as about them.
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 03-19-2012 at 01:03 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I do not for one second believe that V&M had a lift downgraded at Canadians because the technical specialist is a frend of Meryl's. That is so ridiculous I can't believe you posted it with a straight face. P&B got hammered at Euros because of mistakes, not politiking. Skaters make mistakes and have small errors all of the time which impact on their levels but not their overall performance.

    I find it interesting after fans complained for years that the errors in the skating were not reflected in the marking that now that the errors in the skating ARE reflected in the marking, fans are saying that the calling and the marking of downgraded elements is due to politiking.
    I don't believe it either. That was a complaint I read here and elsewhere. But thank you for thinking so little of me that you missed the point of my post.

  11. #86
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    Any update on Nathalie Pechalat worlds are next week is she competing or not?

  12. #87
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    She's not getting surgery, and they are trying to train, and hope to compete.

    BTW, since the ghosts of past dancers have been invoked, there's an interview with Evgeni Platov about the new judging system in dance. The whole thing is interesting, and apparently there is more to come.

    Platov is interviewed by a guy named Simonenko

    http://www.rsport.ru/interview/20120319/586670738.html

    Translation is here, done by TAHbKA at FSU
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...aw#post3513294

    This is a very interesting interview, particularly about the chocktaw in the rhumba in the SD, versus being done in the old CD.

    Platov says:


    AS: But the weight of the compulsory went down nevertheless...

    Platov: The opposite! Increased at least twice! You know how we used to dance the compulsory? Put a nice shirt, skate nicely and here are your marks. No one even payed attention to the steps. And now? Every step is defined - on which edge in which position etc. Shot with a camera. Went on the inside edge got your marks, went to the outside - other marks. And then the key points - got level 4 - here are another 10-12 points. Didn't get level 4 - get 2-3 points and off you go. So the compusolry's weight is much higher! I've seen a lot of rhumba which was this year SD. If you take world medalist and judge them by CoP they wouldn't get a point. Level 1 or 2. Today's rhumba is completely defined. You have to show the outside edge/inside edge/outside edge. The judges have cameras and see everything. When we were skating no one looked at it. Danced nicely and no one care you put the inside edge instead of hte outside. Take the choctaw. There wasn't a single girl, and take the champions who at my time would do the choctaw on the outside edge. They would strike the pose, would do something, but there was no edge. Chоkтаw in rhumba is the most difficult element ever. It's like police car taht drive and maneouvre at the same time. A slightest wave of the whell, and here a slightes lack of synchronization and you are off the line. When I was coachking Coomes/Buckland that step we were collapsing with laughter watching the video seeing what we did. But then they slowly learned. They understood how important it is to skate in unison. That a couple of mm away are tearing apart.


    He has great respect for the athletic prowess of both D&W and V&M, compared to what was done in his day.

    BTW, it's this attitude that explains why Coomes & Buckland were like 4th at Euros in the SD...
    Last edited by dorispulaski; 03-20-2012 at 02:32 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I don't believe it either. That was a complaint I read here and elsewhere. But thank you for thinking so little of me that you missed the point of my post.
    I generally don't form opinions about people I don't know. I just take the posts as I see them and your post lacked any indication that there was sarcasm involved. Since I've read similar thoughts from other posters, here and elsewhere, I try to dispel the idea that everything is a conspiracy whenever I see it.

  14. #89
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Smilies! Use smilies, my friends and fellow posters! We have one for sarcasm now

    If you let your cursor dwell over the smilie, the word "sarcasm" appears.

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