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Thread: Nagasu

  1. #76
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    I still think the word "undertrained" might be relevant though. You can be prepared physically but not mentally. And not being ready mentally can be just as bad as not being ready physically since the jumps in particular require focus as well as strength.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    If this link translates, it is a pic of Mirai at 2012 Nats posted by TanithAndBenFan here. This is not my idea of someone who looks overweight or undertrained!
    https://picasaweb.google.com/1147527...24194408870562
    She's not overweight, but being small is part of this sport, where the champions tend to be thin and extremely fit. If you look at the recent world champions, you will see that they were all in top form. It is widely known that champions of the sport such as Yuna, Mao, and Miki are very cautious about what they eat and very dedicated to their training, and I'm sure that plays a large role in their success. Sure, they are incredibly talented, but talent alone doesn't get you to the top. I mean, Miki Ando could do a quad at 15, is one of the most talented jumpers in the sport, but she didn't win her World titles until she buckled down on her training and became very focused, disciplined, and fit. Mirai has the talent to be a champion like those three but she has to decide she wants it, because the hard work and discipline is a key factor even for those who are incredibly talented like Mirai.

  3. #78
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    I wish people wouldn't always equate "fit" with "thin." Detroit Lion's defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh is fit as a fiddle at 307 pounds.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I wish people wouldn't always equate "fit" with "thin." Detroit Lion's defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh is fit as a fiddle at 307 pounds.
    Well, I agree they are not the same. But, you could tell at nationals just looking at the final flight skating around, Mirai does not have the same kind of muscle definition in her arms and back as skaters like Ashley, Agnes, and Caroline and isn't as thin as skaters like Alissa and Christina. If she were her current size/weight but had muscle definition like Joannie Rochette, people wouldn't be questioning her fitness, but she doesn't, and considering how thin and wiry she always was before these past two seasons, it's likely not just a matter of her natural build or puberty. But I mean, Frank doesn't seem to have an issue telling his skaters they need to lose weight if he thinks they aren't fit enough, wasn't he the one that said that quote about "you can eat or you can compete" with regards to Michelle Kwan? And I haven't heard anything regarding Frank giving Mirai a hard time about her weight or encouraging her to lose weight or work out more, so maybe he feels that is not the issue. And there is a chance it's not, I mean Mirai is such a complicated girl and she seems to have a lot of issues that it's hard to pinpoint what exactly is causing this "rut" she seems to be in, but her body changes over the past two seasons are one of the more obvious changes fans have noticed so it would be logical if there was some kind of correlation between the two, though there may not be.

    Also does anyone know why Mirai frontloads all the combos in her FS? And further, considering how she plans the 2a-3t but rarely hits it, how come she opts to do a 2nd 2a instead of a 2nd 3t later in her program? That way she could still be doing 6 triples even if she misses the 2a-3t...her current layout with 5 triples and no 3f is really not competitive with the top ladies and she doesn't have huge PCS to make up for the deficit.
    Last edited by silverlake22; 03-24-2012 at 12:21 AM.

  5. #80
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    Why won't her parents allow her to live with a skating family near Frank to train consistently?

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I wish people wouldn't always equate "fit" with "thin." Detroit Lion's defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh is fit as a fiddle at 307 pounds.
    I'm not sure everyone is equating fit with thin. I think many posters are careful or sensitive about using words like fat, overweight, etc. So they say not that fit or needs to be fitter. Silverlake22 made some really good points about the muscle definition of Ashley, Agnes, Caroline and Miki. I don't remember what Agnes looked like before this season. Ashley and Caroline did not look the way they did 2 years ago. They were able to be more defined or "fit." Certainly Mirai could as well. You could always tell if Tonya Harding was going to be a threat that season because she would show up in fighting weight.
    Ndamkong Suh is definitely fit, but he doesn't have to rotate 3X in the air multiple times and land on one foot wearing a blade. lol
    Last edited by tampro1; 03-24-2012 at 02:58 AM.

  7. #82
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    And Suh doesn't have to look like a delicate flower either landing with a graceful edge and flow

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by tampro1 View Post
    I think many posters are careful or sensitive about using words like fat, overweight, etc. So they say not that fit or needs to be fitter.
    It doesn't really matter what word is used - the meaning comes across. People have been calling Mirai overweight all season. To me it seems as though Mirai has her new woman's proportions now. She's not a gangly 14-year-old any more.

    I wish we had reports from someone who trains with her because all the speculation is frustrating.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    It doesn't really matter what word is used - the meaning comes across. People have been calling Mirai overweight all season. To me it seems as though Mirai has her new woman's proportions now. She's not a gangly 14-year-old any more.

    I wish we had reports from someone who trains with her because all the speculation is frustrating.
    She can have her woman's proportions and still be more fit. For example, Caroline has looked very fit all season, but she still looks womanly. She's never going to have the body type she did pre-2010 again, but she certainly looks more fit/defined/cut this season compared to last season, when she was not overweight in the least but did not look as fit as she could be. I don't even know if she has lost any weight since last season, she probably has but I would guess not that much pounds-wise, but she now looks like an elite athlete who is in top form, whereas she did not last season. Ashley is not a stick figure either, but she is so strong, you can tell by just looking at her, that she is in great shape, with her defined muscles. There's a video on icenetwork with Agnes after her great SP at Nationals and she said that she works out a lot more this season and has started watching what she eats and she contributed that to her great SP. No one is saying Mirai should try and get back to her 14 year old body, but she could get in better shape while maintaining her woman's proportions, from the looks of it. Ashley, Caroline, and Agnes all appear to be in great shape this season, without being built like gangly 14 year olds. Again, some people will be naturally very thin or muscular and will not have to work as hard to maintain a fighting weight/musculature, but others are not, and regardless of what your natural body type may be, fitness is extremely important to be at the top of the spot. Yuna Kim, for example, has always been very slight, she could probably eat bread and sweets all day and still stay very slender, but she doesn't, because even if it didn't effect her weight, it would affect her fitness levels and performance.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    It doesn't really matter what word is used - the meaning comes across. People have been calling Mirai overweight all season. To me it seems as though Mirai has her new woman's proportions now. She's not a gangly 14-year-old any more.

    I wish we had reports from someone who trains with her because all the speculation is frustrating.
    i do agree with this. I feel like there's been seven versions of this thread with everyone saying the same seven things...

    I do find the discussion about fit vs. thin interesting though.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateluvr View Post
    Why won't her parents allow her to live with a skating family near Frank to train consistently?
    This is what I would like to know. It sounds like her mom is one of those legendary skating moms and think she knows what's best for Mirai, which maybe on a personal level she does, but I dare say she doesn't in terms of training situation because not only has Mirai not been skating well this season, she doesn't seem happy either, and also seems very distracted. Something's got to give.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    This is what I would like to know. It sounds like her mom is one of those legendary skating moms and think she knows what's best for Mirai, which maybe on a personal level she does, but I dare say she doesn't in terms of training situation because not only has Mirai not been skating well this season, she doesn't seem happy either, and also seems very distracted. Something's got to give.
    I suspect motivation is the big issue here. Olympic gold drove Kwan, Slutskaya, Cohen and others to continue skating longer than they probably would have. The high finish in Torino likely gave Mirai optimism for Sochi, but I think she realizes that even replicating that placement is becoming unlikely as her peers are improving and excellent young skaters are coming up through the ranks. So I can't blame her if she is a bit disheartened when she puts in all this work, yet her placement continues to decline.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I suspect motivation is the big issue here. Olympic gold drove Kwan, Slutskaya, Cohen and others to continue skating longer than they probably would have. The high finish in Torino likely gave Mirai optimism for Sochi, but I think she realizes that even replicating that placement is becoming unlikely as her peers are improving and excellent young skaters are coming up through the ranks. So I can't blame her if she is a bit disheartened when she puts in all this work, yet her placement continues to decline.
    She still gets rewarded by the judges when she skates well though. We saw that at 4CC last season and even at COC, where for what she did and considering how early in the season it was, her marks were pretty good. Mirai can compete with the World's best when she skates well, which is the task of the day, it seems. It's not like she's a Rachael Flatt and will never have enough to be on top even if she's perfect.

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    She can pull good marks but she cannot (currently) outjump the girls that consistently get better PCS, which she needs to do to place ahead of them. And next year, even if she has a PCS advantage on Gracie and the Russians, they can more than make up the difference in TES. So it will be a tall order for her to medal at Worlds or in Sochi unless she can beef up her technical content.

  15. #90
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    Recall that everybody has an optimal physique for their style. Midori Ito was very muscular during the 1992 Olympics. When she went for her next attempt, she had slimmed down tremendously and was definitely not the same skater.

    I do agree that Mirai did not appear to be at the best level of fitness, but I don't think physical fitness had anything to do with her loss at Nationals. All the practice reports said that she was skating really well at practices and only started getting the deer in the headlights look on the day of the competition. It's definitely a mental situation at this point IMHO.

    When I think back, she was the rising star - so, she could skate with joy because she was not expected to win. Then, when she got 4th at the Olympics, people expected her to win at least a spot on the podium and gold at Nationals. Then, she started worrying about not winning, but if she made a mistake she still kept at it. Now,she just seems to be worried about making mistakes during competiton; so, when one happens, she's just giving up. She really needs to learn to just want to skate her best, which doesn't mean prefection every single time, but at least it might make her happy again.

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