Nagasu | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Nagasu

b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
The Worlds Ranking list will change drastically once 2009/2010 data is removed and 2010/2011 data will be worth only 70% of what it was before. Mirai will drop quite a bit because 2009/2010 was her best year, her 2011 4CC points will be reduced in value, and she has no ISU championship points for this year. As it stands right now, with the data scrubbed, Wagner will outrank Mirai on the Worlds Ranking list even if Ashley finishes lower than 4th at Worlds.

Does she get isu points for the silver at the CoC GP?
 

b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
I checked the season's rankings. Ashley is indeed fourth, Caroline 9th, Czisny in 12th, Agnes in 18th and Mirai in 21st. Mirai apparently gets 360 points for CoC, 262 for I assume her 5th in SC, and 250 for the Neibelhorn.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
GP points are in the Grand Prix / Junior Grand Prix columns, not in the ISU championship column. Nearly all the top 30 skaters have GP points, but not all of them have ISU championship points, which are awarded only for Euros, 4CC, JW and Worlds. If a skater has competed in multiple ISU championships in a given year, only the HIGHEST points awarded count for that year.

Nagasu is not the only one who will drop. Ando, Kim, Flatt and Tuktamysheva will also take a hit for not having ISU Championship points this season.

The World Team Championship will NOT count towards the World Ranking.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Does she get isu points for the silver at the CoC GP?

I looked again at the announcement for the team trophy, and I think I was wrong in saying that it is the season's ranking. Now I think it is the overall world rankings.

However, to determine which countries get to participate, for the ladies it goes like this.

Team USA has 525 points for Alissa getting fifth at the Grand Prix Final. Team USA has 360 points for Mirai getting second at Cup of China.

It appears that Ashley's win at Four Continents does not count, even if Ashley's placement at worlds gets her fewer points than her Four Continents placement. (See paragraph d2).

The remaining points will come from Ashley's and Alissa' placements at Worlds.

Except in unusual circumstances, the only thing that counts are the two best results in the GP and the two best results at worlds.

If a country qualifies, they are expected to send the two top-ranked overall skaters, even if those are not the skaters that earned the points to qualify the team. There are extra penalties if a skater makes top ten at Worlds but does not participate in the team trophy.

Here are the selection rules. (Click on 2012 team trophy announcement.)

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-182502-199720-nav-list,00.html
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The Worlds Ranking list will change drastically once 2009/2010 data is removed and 2010/2011 data will be worth only 70% of what it was before. Mirai will drop quite a bit because 2009/2010 was her best year, her 2011 4CC points will be reduced in value, and she has no ISU championship points for this year. As it stands right now, with the data scrubbed, Wagner will outrank Mirai on the Worlds Ranking list even if Ashley finishes lower than 4th at Worlds.

Now I am confused. Will the team trophy decision be made on the basis of this year's points, after worlds? Or next year's points after the new season begins?

The most Ashley can gain this year, if she wins the world championship, is 360 points (replacing her 840 with 1200). This will still leave her behind Mirai at the end of the 2012 season, but before the 2012-2013 season begins. (?)

(But USFSA can still send Ashley instead of Mirai if the ISU agrees, as I read the document.)
 
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b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
GP points are in the Grand Prix / Junior Grand Prix columns, not in the ISU championship column. Nearly all the top 30 skaters have GP points, but not all of them have ISU championship points, which are awarded only for Euros, 4CC, JW and Worlds. If a skater has competed in multiple ISU championships in a given year, only the HIGHEST points awarded count for that year.

Nagasu is not the only one who will drop. Ando, Kim, Flatt and Tuktamysheva will also take a hit for not having ISU Championship points this season.

But all columns, isu championship points, GP points, and senior B points count toward both season rankings, and overall rankings. As far as who will take a hit, Ando and Kim will, as they are not competing and will add no points in any category. Tuk won two GP's, and will get lots of points from those events, even if no points from worlds or junior worlds. Mirai will get no isu championship points from 4CC or worlds, but will get points from the 2 GP's and the senior B competition. She will still drop in the world rankings.
 

skateluvr

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Too many Mirai threads saying same thing. Everyone must have a clear picture by now If she still reads here, i hope she knows most wish her well, regardless of what she chooses. I think she might smartly choose to move near Frank or quit. If she can't return to 1 or 2 there is no point to compete unless she is on track for Sochi. She has magic when on and in her zone. Thanks Mirai for your incredible and memorable Olympics in Vancouver. You were fabulous and i thank you for wonderful memory!
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Is Mirai even likely to get 2 GPs next season? With the reduction in spots I fear she might only get one, her SB is not that great and she didn't compete in any ISU championships this season, she'll be behind Ashley, Alissa, and Caroline for spots I think, and possibly Gold too if she decides to do GP. Agnes and Christina will probably only get 1 assignment each I'm guessing, but Mirai might be in that boat as well. Hopefully not.
 

RobinA

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 4, 2010
Not sure I like the term "wasted talent." Talent is only part of the game. We've all seen skaters who didn't have immense talent, but were driven by their own mentality to do what it takes to be a champion. And very good champions they were. On the other hand, some people have talent, but just don't have the single-mindedness and drive necessary to get to and stay at the top. Elite sports is very difficult mentally and somewhat warping of lives. No more than an average talented person can make themselves into a great talent, can a person with great talent make themselves into a person driven to make it to the very top.

For some reason a talented person gets heat for "poor work ethic," "not wanting to win" when they can't muster the stamina and fight to take it to the top, but the averagely talented person with a great work ethic doesn't get hit for not suddenly coming forth with a hidden reserve of talent. A person can't manufacture drive anymore than a person can manufacture talent, but somehow "talent" is considered innate, while the "drive" is considered something readily acquired if one would just try harder. "Drive" is just as innate as talent and can no more easily be acquired.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
Mirai could just have misplaced drive. She might really want it, but it is a detractor and distractor for her rather than a motivator and focuser.
 

kwanatic

Check out my YT channel, Bare Ice!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 19, 2011
Has she hinted that she might not be coming back next season?

I'm just wondering where the retirement idea is coming from? I can't imagine her quitting at this point unless her heart isn't in it anymore and she's ready to move on. I don't sense that from her though. If anything she seems a bit lost to me. But something does need to change if she's going to continue to compete and hopes to improve upon what she did this season. New coach, new choreographer, new training site, new regimen, new attitude...I don't know. Something.

But Mirai can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results...Einstein defined that as insanity, you know.
 

b-man

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Is Mirai even likely to get 2 GPs next season? With the reduction in spots I fear she might only get one, her SB is not that great and she didn't compete in any ISU championships this season, she'll be behind Ashley, Alissa, and Caroline for spots I think, and possibly Gold too if she decides to do GP. Agnes and Christina will probably only get 1 assignment each I'm guessing, but Mirai might be in that boat as well. Hopefully not.
Actually, her season's best of 173 is 4th best among US skaters this year, but that was her only good competition. Last year the US got 14 GP slots, Ashley-2, Agnes-2, Mirai-2, Gao-2, Rachel-2, Czisny-2, Carolin-1, and Forte-1. With Gold coming up, the field gets more crowded. Flatt's plans for next year also play into it.
 

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Actually, her season's best of 173 is 4th best among US skaters this year, but that was her only good competition. Last year the US got 14 GP slots, Ashley-2, Agnes-2, Mirai-2, Gao-2, Rachel-2, Czisny-2, Carolin-1, and Forte-1. With Gold coming up, the field gets more crowded. Flatt's plans for next year also play into it.

It will also depend on how many of the top 6 at Worlds (whoever they are) will opt to do a third GP. In the 2011-2012 series, Kostner (3rd) and Leonova (4th) did a third event; Alissa (5th) and Mao (6th) did not, and obviously Yuna and Miki did not compete this year.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Not sure I like the term "wasted talent." Talent is only part of the game. We've all seen skaters who didn't have immense talent, but were driven by their own mentality to do what it takes to be a champion. And very good champions they were. On the other hand, some people have talent, but just don't have the single-mindedness and drive necessary to get to and stay at the top. Elite sports is very difficult mentally and somewhat warping of lives. No more than an average talented person can make themselves into a great talent, can a person with great talent make themselves into a person driven to make it to the very top.

For some reason a talented person gets heat for "poor work ethic," "not wanting to win" when they can't muster the stamina and fight to take it to the top, but the averagely talented person with a great work ethic doesn't get hit for not suddenly coming forth with a hidden reserve of talent. A person can't manufacture drive anymore than a person can manufacture talent, but somehow "talent" is considered innate, while the "drive" is considered something readily acquired if one would just try harder. "Drive" is just as innate as talent and can no more easily be acquired.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
 
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