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Thread: Wagner skating on a mission, for self and country

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateflower View Post
    Alissa's jump technique is deeply flawed. Bad technique won't miraculously enable you to land jumps consistently. Hunger and drive can only lead you so far.
    I was actually very surprised when she would have periods of consistency because her technique looks so shaky, but she can get it done. Hopefully being in Ashley's shadow a bit can take some pressure off and she can deliver a couple of nice programs. I'm very hopeful the two of them can get the job done.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    While I'm not gonna argue that Gold and Wagner are the new other, what both have and are demonstrating this season is confidence and goals. They have both demonstrated a drive to excel, an understanding of what they did wrong in the past to not excel, and the confidence to pull it off. What Wagner is doing is putting pressure on herself with her talk of the third spot (contributing to it's loss, gold is hers to lose, etc), but she seems to using that pressure as fuel, as opposed to looking at it as an impediment. Right now, it's more interesting because it's a bit of a shift from how the American media likes its female athletes: toughness must be hidden, confidence masked, underdogs preferred. Princesses are prefered to queens. I suspect, for example, that a Czisny medal/victory would play more sweetly than a Wagner victory/medal, and I'm not sure that's fair.
    Michelle was as tough a skater during her time as anyone and she certainly came off as someone confident in her abilities yet i i seem to remember the American media loving her win or lose.

  3. #33
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    Yeah, but they loved Miss "I Just Want To Skate My Best"...

    Good for Wagner (and a couple others) for not serving up the same BS, for the most part.

  4. #34
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    Wagner comes across as a motivated and levelheaded person. She looks fitter than ever and I think she will do well at worlds if she can maintain her calm as well as her spirits.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Michelle was as tough a skater during her time as anyone and she certainly came off as someone confident in her abilities yet i i seem to remember the American media loving her win or lose.
    Yeah, but they also loved Tara Lipinski and Sarah Hughes for beating her; they also fell for her when she was a cute princess, not as the Kween. A dominant American athlete certainly is a great media hook, though.

  6. #36
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    No need to overestimate the American media. They love a winner. When they don't have one, they look for personal narratives. Alissa, Mirai and Rachel Flatt all figured out one. Ashley should soon. (I mean, always getting beaten until now isn't really a narrative.) I guess "fighting solo for american" could work, if she manages to do it when Alissa bombs hard (say Wagner 3rd, Czisny 10th..)

  7. #37
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    Not sure if 10th is falling hard - maybe 16th but Alyssa's scores or rather pcs seem to be high even when she falls apart. Though I do find a lack of a dynamic program when she falls apart. But Wagner just needs to focus on herself and let Alyssa do what she needs to do. If Alyssa and Ashley or A squared skate cleanly I think Alyssa might win but that is just a guess.

  8. #38
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    Michael Jordan was never an underdog and the media loved him too. Yes we like the underdog story here in the US but so do most people actually.

  9. #39
    Rejoicing in the land of Kwan kwanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater Boy View Post
    Not sure if 10th is falling hard - maybe 16th but Alyssa's scores or rather pcs seem to be high even when she falls apart. Though I do find a lack of a dynamic program when she falls apart. But Wagner just needs to focus on herself and let Alyssa do what she needs to do. If Alyssa and Ashley or A squared skate cleanly I think Alyssa might win but that is just a guess.
    Now that Ashley has earned the respect from the judges, I can't see a clean Alissa beating a clean Ashley. Only way that would work is if Alissa's 3lz-3t and 2a-3t somehow materializes and she nails everything else as well.

    I love Alissa's smooth style and elegant presentation but she's just too soft. I love her SP but her LP is a empty and a bit of a snoozer, whereas Ashley's SP is light and upbeat and her LP is dynamic and full of energy...she'll outshine Alissa easily. Alissa has beautiful presentation on the ice and some of the best spins around BUT her technical content and the impact of her skating (ie. the impression she leaves on the ice) can't touch what Ashley's been doing this season. Because Ashley skates with speed and power and her programs are well put together and well-skated she leaves a much bigger and lasting impression with her performances. I just can't see Alissa matching her.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Now that Ashley has earned the respect from the judges, I can't see a clean Alissa beating a clean Ashley. Only way that would work is if Alissa's 3lz-3t and 2a-3t somehow materializes and she nails everything else as well.

    I love Alissa's smooth style and elegant presentation but she's just too soft. I love her SP but her LP is a empty and a bit of a snoozer, whereas Ashley's SP is light and upbeat and her LP is dynamic and full of energy...she'll outshine Alissa easily. Alissa has beautiful presentation on the ice and some of the best spins around BUT her technical content and the impact of her skating (ie. the impression she leaves on the ice) can't touch what Ashley's been doing this season. Because Ashley skates with speed and power and her programs are well put together and well-skated she leaves a much bigger and lasting impression with her performances. I just can't see Alissa matching her.
    I completely agree with you. Ashley has the momentum at this point and has been skating with much more confidence and attack than Alissa is capable of and that SHOULD be rewarded.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Michael Jordan was never an underdog and the media loved him too. Yes we like the underdog story here in the US but so do most people actually.
    He also wasn't female.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivingmissdaisy View Post
    I was actually very surprised when she would have periods of consistency because her technique looks so shaky, but she can get it done. Hopefully being in Ashley's shadow a bit can take some pressure off and she can deliver a couple of nice programs. I'm very hopeful the two of them can get the job done.
    it's interesting that people say she doesn't have the right technique...that's why she changed coaches and had so much success last year, and some this year. technique might not have a thing to do with it, when you get nervous you forget your technique. it's always been a mind game for alissa. you can have the best coach in the world to teach you the right technique, and you might have it in practice. but if your mind isn't in the right place it's useless in competition.

    here you can see how her jump technique has changed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLVnCwvTsvc

  13. #43
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    He also wasn't female.
    True. But are we are starting to get used to, and starting to like, female warriors like Serena Williams, Mia Hamm, Danika Patrick, etc., who are there to kick your butt and don't mind saying so.

    "The boast" is a staple element of all Indo-Aryan heroic fiction. "I am (Beowulf, Rama, Gilgamesh, Achilles) and I am going to do this to you, and when I am finished I am going to that to whatever is left of you." Female characters are either beautiful princesses who sit around waiting to be rescued or else wicked witches.

    The times, they are a-changin'.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by macy View Post
    it's always been a mind game for alissa...
    here you can see how her jump technique has changed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLVnCwvTsvc
    Neat. So before, she couldn't get much spring out of that takeoff, and she had a wrap in the air; now, she springs much higher and the wrap is a lot less obvious.

    But doesn't this actually show that it wasn't always a mind game for Alissa? Her poor technique contributed to her failed jumps.

    Besides technique, another thing that stood out for me was how she looked noticeably thinner last year than the previous year (I noticed this last year, but I got reminded again looking at this video). Probably not carrying that little extra weight also helped her gain more airtime. She's just as thin this year, but unlike last year, she gives the impression of "frail" rather than "fit." Maybe she's started to lose more muscle mass. She just looks so uncertain on the ice again.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    True. But are we are starting to get used to, and starting to like, female warriors like Serena Williams, Mia Hamm, Danika Patrick, etc., who are there to kick your butt and don't mind saying so.

    "The boast" is a staple element of all Indo-Aryan heroic fiction. "I am (Beowulf, Rama, Gilgamesh, Achilles) and I am going to do this to you, and when I am finished I am going to that to whatever is left of you." Female characters are either beautiful princesses who sit around waiting to be rescued or else wicked witches.

    The times, they are a-changin'.
    And yes. As my initial post stated, there is a shift occuring.

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