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Thread: Base value - points for each jump

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    Base value - points for each jump

    When googling the points awarded for the different jumps, I found http://iceskatingresources.org/CompetitionJumps.html. Mind you, I'm a newbie fan (I used to follow figure skating years ago, stopped for a while, just got back into it a few months ago), but the values in this particular chart seem a bit low to me. Could a "veteran" fan tell me if the chart is accurate and up to date? Thanks!

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    Yazunori Hamyulla
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRetiro View Post
    When googling the points awarded for the different jumps, I found http://iceskatingresources.org/CompetitionJumps.html. Mind you, I'm a newbie fan (I used to follow figure skating years ago, stopped for a while, just got back into it a few months ago), but the values in this particular chart seem a bit low to me. Could a "veteran" fan tell me if the chart is accurate and up to date? Thanks!
    Its the old values. The scale of values were changed after 2010 due to complaints. The most up to date SoV is listed on the 2016-17 ISU communication.
    Last edited by shiroKJ; 04-05-2017 at 09:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiroKJ View Post
    Its the old values. The scale of values were changed after 2010 due to complaints. The most up to date SoV is listed on the 2016-17 ISU communication.
    Thanks! I read the Wiki article about the 2010 Vancouver controversy. The list you linked to jibes much more closely with the values I see in the top-left window, where they post the TES for the leader and the current skater.

    Another question, I get what the columns for +/-1,2,3 mean, but what do the V and V1 columns represent? I'm guessing V = underrotated jump, but I don't have a clue what V1 is for. Thanks again!

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    Yazunori Hamyulla
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    Quote Originally Posted by delretiro View Post
    thanks! I read the wiki article about the 2010 vancouver controversy. The list you linked to jibes much more closely with the values i see in the top-left window, where they post the tes for the leader and the current skater.

    Another question, i get what the columns for +/-1,2,3 mean, but what do the v and v1 columns represent? I'm guessing v = underrotated jump, but i don't have a clue what v1 is for. Thanks again!
    V = < (Underrotated) OR "e" (Incorrect edge)

    V1 = < AND "e" (Underrotated and incorrect edge)


    • If a jump is << it is downgraded so the BV will be the counted as the jump with one less revolution. (Ex. 4T<< = same BV as 3T, of course with -GOE)
    • If a jump is called "!" (unclear edge/flat edge) it keeps the same BV but will (usually) receive -GOE
    Last edited by shiroKJ; 04-05-2017 at 09:51 PM.

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    shiroKJ is correct but I just wanted to super-clarify something (because we see this assumption a lot): a downgraded jump is NOT the same as the next jump down. The scoring system treats, for example, 4T<< and 3T as two DIFFERENT jumps. They might have the same BV but they are different.

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    Yazunori Hamyulla
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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    shiroKJ is correct but I just wanted to super-clarify something (because we see this assumption a lot): a downgraded jump is NOT the same as the next jump down. The scoring system treats, for example, 4T<< and 3T as two DIFFERENT jumps. They might have the same BV but they are different.
    This little tid bit is extremely important when talking about zayak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiroKJ View Post
    This little tid bit is extremely important when talking about zayak.
    Thanks for the responses! Every answer seems to spark another question, so here's another one: is an incorrect edge an issue with any other jump other than the notorious flutz? ShiroKJ mentions an unclear or flat edge. How often do skaters take off from a flat edge? I can see it happening at the novice level but can't remember seeing it at the senior level. Surya Bonaly was criticized for shallow edges. Is that an example? Thanks again!
    Last edited by DelRetiro; 04-06-2017 at 12:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRetiro View Post
    Thanks for the responses! Every answer seems to spark another question, so here's another one: is an incorrect edge an issue with any other jump other than the notorious flutz? ShiroKJ mentions an unclear or flat edge. How often do skaters take off from a flat edge? I can see it happening at the novice level but can't remember seeing it at the senior level. Surya Bonaly was criticized for shallow edges. Is that an example? Thanks again!
    The flip is also prone to incorrect edges ("lip"). Skaters take off from flat edges extremely commonly; many top skaters have lips or flutzes (even otherwise technically correct skaters like Plushenko, who himself had a lip). One usually precludes the other; it is rare to see someone have both a lip and a flutz.

    Basically, let's imagine the following keystrokes are your left foot (for a counter-clockwise skater) and you're skating backwards. This is an outside edge \ . This is an inside edge /. And this is a flat |. The flat | is very common for both jumps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by karne View Post
    The flip is also prone to incorrect edges ("lip"). Skaters take off from flat edges extremely commonly; many top skaters have lips or flutzes (even otherwise technically correct skaters like Plushenko, who himself had a lip). One usually precludes the other; it is rare to see someone have both a lip and a flutz.

    Basically, let's imagine the following keystrokes are your left foot (for a counter-clockwise skater) and you're skating backwards. This is an outside edge \ . This is an inside edge /. And this is a flat |. The flat | is very common for both jumps.
    Again, thanks for the response. I had read about "lips" but had no idea skaters at the senior level were guilty of it, much less a great skater like Plushenko.

    Another question: When jumps are done in combination, is the combo worth just the sum of the two jumps? The base value of a triple lutz is 6.0 and a triple toe 4.3. So is the combination worth just 10.3, or does the skater get a bonus for doing them in combination? I would think there should be some kind of bonus since the two jumps are much more difficult to do in combination than as two stand-alone jumps. If the combination is just the simple sum of the two jumps, then why do skaters take the risk? Is there a rule that limits the number of jump passes/combinations/sequences a skater can do in a program? I thought I read somewhere that a skater is limited to 7 jump passes in the free skate and 3 jump combinations/sequences. Is this true? As always, thanks for responding!
    Last edited by DelRetiro; 04-06-2017 at 06:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRetiro View Post
    Another question: When jumps are done in combination, is the combo worth just the sum of the two jumps? The base value of a triple lutz is 6.0 and a triple toe 4.3. So is the combination worth just 10.3,
    Yes.

    or does the skater get a bonus for doing them in combination? I would think there should be some kind of bonus since the two jumps are much more difficult to do in combination than as two stand-alone jumps. If the combination is just the simple sum of the two jumps, then why do skaters take the risk? Is there are rule that limits the number of jump passes/combinations/sequences a skater can do in a program? I thought I read somewhere that a skater is limited to 7 jump passes in the free skate and 3 jump combinations/sequences. Is this true? As always, thanks for responding!
    Exactly -- because there is a limit on the total number of jump passes and the number of combinations that a skater may include in a freeskate. If they want to include the maximum number of jumps, they need to do combinations. Depending on the number of different difficult jumps they're capable of, they may need to do combinations of two difficult jumps in order to fit them all in.

    Also, thanks to the Zayak rule, skaters are allowed to repeat two triple or quad jumps (a total of two times each), and they have to perform the repeated jump in combination at least one of those times to get full credit for the second one.

    In the short program, of course, the requirements are one two-jump combination, one solo jump out of steps, and one axel jump. So everybody is aiming to the same number of jumps, the hardest ones they're likely to execute successfully with good grade of execution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelRetiro View Post
    Again, thanks for the response. I had read about "lips" but had no idea skaters at the senior level were guilty of it, much less a great skater like Plushenko.

    Another question: When jumps are done in combination, is the combo worth just the sum of the two jumps? The base value of a triple lutz is 6.0 and a triple toe 4.3. So is the combination worth just 10.3, or does the skater get a bonus for doing them in combination? I would think there should be some kind of bonus since the two jumps are much more difficult to do in combination than as two stand-alone jumps. If the combination is just the simple sum of the two jumps, then why do skaters take the risk? Is there are rule that limits the number of jump passes/combinations/sequences a skater can do in a program? I thought I read somewhere that a skater is limited to 7 jump passes in the free skate and 3 jump combinations/sequences. Is this true? As always, thanks for responding!
    Combinations are not given bonus as far as I'm aware (unless I'm blanking) outside of the bonus 10% for any jump elements in the second half of the program. Skaters do combos because of the jumping element limit (jumping element = jumping passes, just the terminology used in the ISU Handbook) which are 7 jump elements for Ladies' FS and 8 jump elements for Men's FS.

    This info all comes from the ISU Technical Panel Handbook

    You may want to hunt around the ISU website and look through some of the rules documents, which should be able to answer some of these questions faster than waiting for someone to respond here.

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